slycbnew
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Surely this is never an option?
Surely this is never an option?
c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Guys, even if villain has a 2:1 draw, and there's $100,000,000 in the pot, and we bet $1, and villain calls $1, we still make money in the long run. Just because villain isn't making a FTP mistake doesn't mean we don't make money.
Villain's FTP mistake is raising the flop with a flush draw when he has no fold equity. When we call a flop raise with a set on a drawy board, we may get the money in bad on the turn and make a FTP mistake. But when we jam the flop with a set, we know the move we're making is +EV. So just jam and be happy that you got the $ in as a 2:1 fav.
Bottom line is this: If you have a set and you're a favorite, and you should jam the money in whenever you're given the opportunity to do so. If you're advocating playing sets passively you need to reevaluate how you play this game.
Villain's FTP mistake is raising the flop with a flush draw when he has no fold equity. When we call a flop raise with a set on a drawy board, we may get the money in bad on the turn and make a FTP mistake. But when we jam the flop with a set, we know the move we're making is +EV. So just jam and be happy that you got the $ in as a 2:1 fav.
Bottom line is this: If you have a set and you're a favorite, and you should jam the money in whenever you're given the opportunity to do so. If you're advocating playing sets passively you need to reevaluate how you play this game.
T
treesandsuch
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I agree with this. If they have odds to call us they definitely have odds to let us check. Us checking gives them INFINITE ODDS!!! :joyman::deal::deal:
Weregoat
Visionary
Silver Level
Both Stu and c9 make valid points.
If I put somebody on a FD I might consider not raising them on the flop. But then when their card comes on the turn I gotta consider the how many outs I have to boat up, or dump my hand. A bet for value on the turn which gives me odds to draw to a boat, and implied odds, nonetheless?
I'm curious how many made flushes get folded when the board pairs on the river. I'm guessing a small amount. Not that I believe a draw should be tolerated, or that we should draw against a full house, but when you take your implied odds . . . Hrm. I will definitely consider this for the hours to come.
If I put somebody on a FD I might consider not raising them on the flop. But then when their card comes on the turn I gotta consider the how many outs I have to boat up, or dump my hand. A bet for value on the turn which gives me odds to draw to a boat, and implied odds, nonetheless?
I'm curious how many made flushes get folded when the board pairs on the river. I'm guessing a small amount. Not that I believe a draw should be tolerated, or that we should draw against a full house, but when you take your implied odds . . . Hrm. I will definitely consider this for the hours to come.
spiderman637
RIP Buck
Silver Level
Was actually searching for a thread like this, butwat u told is prety predictable mate...
Give us some new strategy to discuss...
Anyways i think i will fold 22 to 77 if theirs been a weak raise before me and if the raise was stronger, i would only continue with JJ or better and fold evrything else...
Give us some new strategy to discuss...
Anyways i think i will fold 22 to 77 if theirs been a weak raise before me and if the raise was stronger, i would only continue with JJ or better and fold evrything else...
doops
Visionary
Silver Level
Sets are probably the biggest money maker in NL games. That said, they do not always win by the river.
The very low PPs can be great if you hit your set precidely because they are so hidden and so unlikely. But I seldom play them, and only if I can get in really cheap, preferably from late position. A 3xBB raise is too much to call, as others have pointed out. The sets show up too seldom to make this +EV. Joe Cada's success with the baby PPs has warped many players' perception of the value of these -- but then I have had my overcards crushed by 22 more times than I can count, so maybe not. I rarely play them myself, so I am surprised when finding someone else has.
A middle PP, however, has the interesting ability to, on occasion, fill in a straight as well, if the board is right. Or it can, sometimes, hold up on its own. So a 3xBB raise before is borderline OK, to me.
As to playing the hit set, I would suggest not overdoing it. But then I am a wimp.
The very low PPs can be great if you hit your set precidely because they are so hidden and so unlikely. But I seldom play them, and only if I can get in really cheap, preferably from late position. A 3xBB raise is too much to call, as others have pointed out. The sets show up too seldom to make this +EV. Joe Cada's success with the baby PPs has warped many players' perception of the value of these -- but then I have had my overcards crushed by 22 more times than I can count, so maybe not. I rarely play them myself, so I am surprised when finding someone else has.
A middle PP, however, has the interesting ability to, on occasion, fill in a straight as well, if the board is right. Or it can, sometimes, hold up on its own. So a 3xBB raise before is borderline OK, to me.
As to playing the hit set, I would suggest not overdoing it. But then I am a wimp.
BeaverTrump
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Unfortunately seldom enough there is when at you set and at the opponent top a pair (((( and in this case on yours bet will very often follow fold.... And set, especially badly appreciable it is valid very strong hand
sammyfive
Rock Star
Silver Level
Can someone help me understand the difference between normal and deep stack play?
To me it seems the money won or lost is the same either way but I hear this stuff mentioned a lot.
Is there math involved or just less of your stack at risk?
B
BenLZ
Rock Star
Silver Level
I would definitely call a 3b w/ 100 BB with the hope of set mining. I don't see why you should be folding low pocket pairs to 3bs if you're both at 100 BBs and the raise is like 3BBs. From personal experience, I've stacked my opponents with sets multiple times. If you don't hit the set on the flop, muck it. You can't "set mine" for sure unless you're sure he's got a higher PP, but my personal experience with sets has been very profitable. You can sometimes just make your opponents fold with the made-hand you have if it winds up they have AK or AQ.
Definitely call standard raises with low pocket pairs even at 100 BBs. If it's 3% of your stack to call, you're going to hit sets 11% of the time and those times you can frequently felt the opponent if you do hit. It's essentially impossible to get off AA or KK when the flop comes like 3,6,9 and your opponent has a set. It's highly likely you're going to felt them here. That would be a gain of 100BBs and even if it's 50BBs that still offsets the other $27 (9x3=27) you've lost in the long run by missing the sets (assuming it's 100NL, with 3BB raises and you're going to miss 9/10 times).
Definitely call standard raises with low pocket pairs even at 100 BBs. If it's 3% of your stack to call, you're going to hit sets 11% of the time and those times you can frequently felt the opponent if you do hit. It's essentially impossible to get off AA or KK when the flop comes like 3,6,9 and your opponent has a set. It's highly likely you're going to felt them here. That would be a gain of 100BBs and even if it's 50BBs that still offsets the other $27 (9x3=27) you've lost in the long run by missing the sets (assuming it's 100NL, with 3BB raises and you're going to miss 9/10 times).