3-bet range on button from CO steal

[widowmaker89]

Hey guys and gals, I was wondering what kind of ranges everyone likes to 3 bet when its folded to CO and they make a play. This is obviously villian dependant so what is the difference between a tricky/solid player vs a more fishier player. What I'm most interested in is there such hands that are too good for a bluff 3-bet but not good enough for value?

Right now I have no in-between hands and I am wondering everyone elses take on it. Obviously we are in position on the button so I feel hands such as 99 I can 3bet and have a FE plus a pretty solid hand if called in position. A thread today about a BVB made me think about this, so I was wondering everyones take since I never really flat this. I play 100nl if that matters at all(i feel it might since a bet at the lower levels is more likely a hand since more players are just playing their hands and not their position) FYI if Im against a trickier stealing villian I have a pretty high range, im just wondering most about the hands that may have too much value to bluff with.

Im very interested in what everyone has to say since ive never really thought twice about it until that thread. It is obviously different than a BvB since we are not the last to act and, more importantly, we have .75BB to try to get(or more importantly CO is trying to get thus widening range?).

As I said I think there is no middle ground and 3 betting 88-TT hands is what I do(as well as some SC and the better hands villian dependant) but I never really thought about it, so Im very interested in everyones take.

 

[ChuckTs]

Very very broad question you're asking.

3betting for value range = whatever is ahead of his opening range.

3betting light range = it depends. In general you want to 3bet hands that have potential, aren't easily dominated and are easy to let go of without a strong hand. Like you don't want to 3bet A4o because if you flop TP you may not stack it, but will no doubt get one or even two streets of bets in. 67s, 8Ts, Q9s, pairs, etc.

 

[widowmaker89]

That I understand and I have a pretty wide 3bet light against most villians here, which I find very ev+ although I feel the higher limits will 4 bet light more but I suppose I tackle that when I get there.

Maybe I wasnt clear(would be shocking since ive had a good 5 hours of drinking time since work), my more specific question is: Are there any hands thats have too much value to 3bet light but not enough value to straight value bet. There was a thread today about a 99 3bet in a BvB that people seemed to think 99 has to much value to turn it into a bluff. While I understand a CO v button is different it does have some similarities. My take at this moment is no, that there is more value in 3betting the middle hands but am wondering if everyone agrees with that.

 

[zachvac]

3betting for value range = whatever is ahead of his opening range.

We can't really be this simplistic though. We have to take into account what his 4-betting range is. That was the problem in the 99 thread imo, that although 99 is definitely ahead of the SB stealing range, it also is pretty much only called/4-bet by better and it folds out worse (plus some villains will 4-bet light although their overall range still crushes 99, so that makes it even worse, since we can't call a 4-bet and they gain even more of an edge from light 4-betting). Basically the only advantage to it is folding out overs, KQs, QJs, AQ maybe, AJ, etc. But since we have position our postflop edge is then bigger than the edge we get from betting when ahead of his range. Plus there's the set mining aspect where AA/KK even if they don't stack will be paying us off when we flop a set. There really aren't any hands that have good implied odds against us unless there's a set over set. Even if we flop unders we're definitely not paying off any more than 2 streets, possibly only 1, which is about how much our original 3-bet would be for anyway.

 

[ChuckTs]

Good point Zach, I definitely didn't think too much before posting that first part.

The point is, it depends on a lot of factors. This is such a hugely general question that really we can't give you any really specific hand ranges. It depends on your opponent and his opening range, 4betting range, call 3bet range, your history with him, how he plays postflop...

 

[markpro]

Even though your using very fancy terms, ill try to answer lol.
I believe your asking me what cards your supposed to bet with in bluffing situations, which ones not to, and which ones you should value bet... etc...
Heres the thing, a bluff usually occurs after the flop... meaning not during preflop, but on the flop turn or river. Now, if you are already here your hand SHOULD be a decent one, either high cards, suited conectors, or pocket pairs. considering these to be your cards, lets say you totally miss the board. Would it be wize to value bet or to bluff in position? If you had high cards then it would be a good idea to bluff it out, since if you arnt called you got it right there, and if not, well you can a nice chance to catch. Now, if you have a pocket pair but its not that great compared to the board, value betting will due. This is because if you are called, well your value bet will eventually get you winnings in the long run, and if you are raised you know you are beat so thats that. If you have absolutely nothinkg, some suited conectors that missed, well a value bet here wont do since it has no value!! lol. Try to straight out bluff if you must, or hope no raising comes your way. Good luck at the tables!

 

[nutzzcase]

i like to 3-bet suited connectors ,any pocket pair and AQ - AK against a passive player .....against an average-good player ......i wouldn't 3-bet that often unless i'm OOP(which i need to do to protect a hand like 1010 +)