What would you do.

S

spindoct

Enthusiast
9 players left. The action: The blinds are 1,500 and 1000 and I am one seat away from the big blind. I am short stacked, having only 5000 chips. The guy to my right is the only one with fewer chips than I have at the table. He is the big blind first. He is raised and folds. I fold.
Turn two: I am now the big blind bringing my chip count down to 3500. I am raised with 8/5 unsuited and muck.
Turn three: I am little blind and put out my 1000 in chips leaving me 2500 in chips. 2500 in chips is the exact amount of the big blind and little blind that are coming up. The guy with the least amount of chips now has 1000 in chips and is one position ahead of me to get the big blind. bI am two from the button and pick up A Q.
Question: The question is do I muck the A Q and hope that the guy with 1000 in chips gets blinded out one hand prior to me so I move up $500 in money or do I take the chance to go ALL IN raising 1000 more than the big blind and hope to double up?
What would you do. And no this situation did not happen to me. It happened to Jill Ann Spaulding. I just seen the article in her new magazine titled Top Pair. And hey guys when I first opened it up it looks like Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Issue. Really. Damn. Maybe better. Check it out. Anyways what would you do. She is going to write about what actually happened next month I guess so I will let you know when I know. Anyways until then LOL
Later,
spindoct
 
C

chicubs1616

Guest
If you push all-in here, the BB is going to call with any two cards because of the good pot odds he is getting (call 2000 to win 5000 or 5:2 odds), so be prepared for a showdown. If you win this pot you will have 7000 chips. You most likely will get at least 8th place.

If the difference between 8th and 9th place is $500 I would imagine the difference between 8th and 7th is ~$750.

If I am in this tournament I push and either pick up the BB and have 5000 in chips or take my chances with the AQ and try to double up to 7000 to give myself a better shot to move up the pay ladder.

If you fold here, you are basically telling the table that you are going to try and settle for 8th place, I take the risk here and put my chips into the pot with a good hand instead of waiting for another player to get knocked out and having only 2500 chips.

You want to win the tournament if possible and folding AQ in the SB with no one else in the pot except the BB is a bad strategy to do that.

You are already in the money, you might as well try and maximize your profits and if you take a bad bet with the AQ, big deal, you still cash and in the long run you will make money on that play.
 
RammerJammer

RammerJammer

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If the foremost thing on your mind is whether to finish 7th or 8th, you have no business at a final table to begin with. Sure, you should be aware of your position, but it's shouldn't dictate your play. Play to win or you've already lost, whether you finish 7th, 8th, or 108th. I wouldn't think for a half-second before pushing all-in with AQ in this situation.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
I would go all in, what are the chances to you getting a good starting hand like that again? Take advantage. Remember, no guts, no glory.
 
C

colin_147

Guest
I wouldnt even consider it. I would be all-in, no doubts at all

Its pot luck on the showdown but you already (most probably) have a high card lead
 
N

Nabbin Bones

Rising Star
How many better hands are you going to see at this point? Especially if you only have one other hand to beat (BB). Double up, double up, double up - or at least capture the big blind, so then you can double up. Play for the victory, baby!!
 
buckster436

buckster436

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no decision required,the way you explained it i would throw my money in at this point and hope to double up>>>.buckster436
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
I've never been in at a final table with that level of prizes, so I can't be 100% sure of what I'd do. However, my inclination is definitely to go all in.

With AQ, you're probably going to win. I don't think BB has an automatic call with rag rag, so it might be right away, and if you are called, you're probably favored anyway.

And if you muck, there's no guarantee the short stack will go out.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Were talking $500.00? That's a lot of dough, and contrary to what you read above there's no shame in playing for the money and since your so low in chips, your probably not going to win it all anyway. Knowing when to tighten up is a strategy. Id play for the $500.00 and go all-in later.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Okay, now I'm really curious. If you're not going to go all in with AQ in this situation, is there any combination of cards with which you would?

Or are you suggesting a different action aside from all in or muck?
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
If your talking to me the answer is, yes, certainly I would go all-in with a high pair, but unsuited high cards need help and even AA is not a favorite against 2 callers. In this case, were not even talking about big slick, and your small chip stack is unlikely to thin the field much. This may be your best chance to get back in the game, but its also your best chance to miss out on the money.
 
C

colin_147

Guest
If you dont go all-in, then what kinda hand are you actually waiting on?

I mean you are not going to get much better than AQ, its possible of course. The blinds will swallow you next time round, and remember, everybody knows the next player out loses the money, so it will be very tight. You would be kicking yourself if, next time you are SB, you get dealt 7 2o
 
RammerJammer

RammerJammer

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You guys are going to think that Doyle Brunson must have shat me out after a bran muffin one morning, as much as I quote him, but hey...it's Doyle! Come on, who else are you going to listen to? Once again, from "Super System":

"You should commit to memory the following list of trouble hands. I call them that because that's exactly what they are...and I only play them in borderline situations. (Note: Two important qualifications are that I don't consider the trouble hands borderline when they're suited or when I get them in a short-handed game...four players or less. In those situations, they're actually big hands.)

"They're hands you can lose a lot of money with...so you should play them very cautiously. You don't want to jeopardize much money with them. You're much more likely to lose a big pot with these than you are to win a big pot with them."

A-Q*
A-J
A-10
K-Q
K-J
K-10
Q-J
Q-10
J-10
9-8

**************
*Eye-opener, anyone? I know it was for me. I can't count the times I have skated out onto the ice with these cards, only to have the hand crack and fall out from under me. Makes me wish to rethink my original position that I would have gone all-in with the AQ without hesitation. Hmmm...
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
colin_147 said:
If you dont go all-in, then what kinda hand are you actually waiting on?

I mean you are not going to get much better than AQ, its possible of course. The blinds will swallow you next time round, and remember, everybody knows the next player out loses the money, so it will be very tight. You would be kicking yourself if, next time you are SB, you get dealt 7 2o
Well, your right, you can't wait long, and under different circumstances this would be the time to make your move, but if I read the situation correctly, your only one elimination from the money, and the player to your right is in even worse shape than you and won't survive the next blinds, playing tight isn't an option for him anymore. So, to answer your question, that is what your waiting for.

RammerJammer said:
You guys are going to think that Doyle Brunson must have shat me out after a bran muffin one morning, as much as I quote him, but hey...it's Doyle! Come on, who else are you going to listen to? Once again, from "Super System":

"You should commit to memory the following list of trouble hands. I call them that because that's exactly what they are...and I only play them in borderline situations. (Note: Two important qualifications are that I don't consider the trouble hands borderline when they're suited or when I get them in a short-handed game...four players or less. In those situations, they're actually big hands.)

"They're hands you can lose a lot of money with...so you should play them very cautiously. You don't want to jeopardize much money with them. You're much more likely to lose a big pot with these than you are to win a big pot with them."

A-Q*
A-J
A-10
K-Q
K-J
K-10
Q-J
Q-10
J-10
9-8

**************
*Eye-opener, anyone? I know it was for me. I can't count the times I have skated out onto the ice with these cards, only to have the hand crack and fall out from under me. Makes me wish to rethink my original position that I would have gone all-in with the AQ without hesitation. Hmmm...
Hmm, interresting coming from a man who went all-in 2 years in a row with 10-2 at the wsop. And won. Both times.
 
Last edited:
RammerJammer

RammerJammer

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Four Dogs said:
Hmm, interresting coming from a man who went all-in 2 years in a row with 10-2 at the WSOP. And won. Both times.
You know, when you posted that I realized that I don't really know the story behind the 10-2 thing. Doyle doesn't go into detail in Super System, at least not that I've run across. (Haven't read it cover-to-cover yet, mostly just the General Poker and Hold 'Em sections.)

Did he suck both of those hands out from way behind on pre-flop all-in's? Or did he get a read on the other guy(s) and bust 'em? Anybody know their poker history?
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
It was in the mid 70's so there's probably no film, but from what i understand, in both years he filled a full house with a 10 on the river. 10's full of 2's.
 
W

Wlokos

Guest
RammerJammer said:
If the foremost thing on your mind is whether to finish 7th or 8th, you have no business at a final table to begin with. Sure, you should be aware of your position, but it's shouldn't dictate your play. Play to win or you've already lost, whether you finish 7th, 8th, or 108th. I wouldn't think for a half-second before pushing all-in with AQ in this situation.
With the blinds at where they were, doubling up to 10,000 wouldn't mean too much.

In that situation, chances are you aren't going to win, so I think it'd be best to just try and get as much as you can, rather than risk winning less when you'll still have a long way to go even if you win the hand and double up.
 
B

BuffClemins

Guest
OK why do you even ask this question. Who wouldnt put all their chips in, in this situation. 2500 chips big blind 1000 person calls and you can call or go all in, gotta go allin and double up, they will call because of the pot odds. THIS IS THE DUMBEST POST I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
 
Z

Zypher22

Guest
And if you muck, there's no guarantee the short stack will go out.
Good point, what's there to stop the other short stack from doubling up. There are alot of other things that can happen to change your position in the tournament (other short stack doubling up, someone else getting knocked out by a bigger stack, etc.).

I think you would have to go all in with this. As others have said if you aren't going with AQ what are you going to go with? And what are the odds you will get it before you are blinded out?
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Go all in! What are you a wimp? Why settle for 7th or 8th? You want the big pie so play for it like that at the end.
 
I

Inger05

Guest
An extremily simialr situation happened to me yesterday...I pushed it with the AQ and got beat by KK and I ended up out before the shorter stacked guy. I tend to just play, sometimes worrying about "outgrinding" other players just distracts you from your game.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
As an interesting aside, Doyle Brunson also came second in the WSOP one time, losing to Stu Ungar, who is the only three-time winner. He (Doyle) had aces over sevens after the flop, and Ungar caught an inside straight. Obviously, too good a hand to win.
 
L

LILJ101

Guest
PUSH!!!!!!!!!

all in, what if the other low stack goes allin and doubles up. he wont get blinded out.
 
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