What does this guy have???

[gord962]

Rarely was there ever a pre-flop bet - I think I made more pre-flop bets that the whole table combined. Hand selection was normally any two face cards, pocket pairs or suited connectors from most of the table.

pokerstars GAME #5317107030: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.05/$0.10) - 2006/06/21 - 00:17:26 (ET)Table 'Telephus III' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: airboxguy ($6.45 in chips)
Seat 2: DERUY ($8.85 in chips)
Seat 3: GeneNTraci ($3.85 in chips)
Seat 4: devilt ($12.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Buckseed ($9.60 in chips)
Seat 6: Phil Logan ($9.50 in chips) <<--- Villian who had been winning almost every hand he was in for the last 1/2 hour, now has lost about $5 in the last 10 hands or so. He was playing really tight but has loosened up as the game went on.
Seat 7: TTopGun21 ($10.45 in chips)
Seat 8: gord962 ($3.80 in chips) <<---- our hero
gord962: posts small blind $0.05
airboxguy: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gord962 [7c 7h]
jmacj2100 joins the table at seat #9
DERUY: folds
GeneNTraci: folds
devilt: folds
Buckseed: calls $0.10
Phil Logan: calls $0.10
TTopGun21: calls $0.10
gord962: calls $0.05
airboxguy: checks
*** FLOP ***
[3d 7s Jd]
gord962: bets $0.25
airboxguy: folds
Buckseed: folds
Phil Logan: calls $0.25
TTopGun21: folds
*** TURN ***
[3d 7s Jd] K♦
gord962: bets $1
Phil Logan: calls $1
*** RIVER ***
[3d 7s Jd Kd] K♣
gord962: bets $2.45 and is all-in
Phil Logan: calls $2.45
*** SHOW DOWN ***

Any guesses on what this Phil Logan was holding??? I know it's a bit difficult since there is no pre-flop raises, but what would you require to call an all-in on this play??

 

[titans4ever]

Any guesses on what this Phil Logan was holding??? I know it's a bit difficult since there is no pre-flop raises, but what would you require to call an all-in on this play??

A set of balls. The way you described it he could be holding anything. The only hand I could see him having is KoJack ,KJ. Slight possibility he has a Jx and only has top two pair and thinks it unlikely that you have a 3rd. If you really think he has KJ then fold. I think I would have to pay him off if he got runner, runner to beat you.

Two nuggets that would help me make this decision. I would try and think of these two things before I make my decision final.
1) Has he called with second pair after the turn that you can remember? He may have hit his J and is not scared of the K. The second one on the river just makes it that less likely you hold a third.
2) What is his all-in threshold? Does he only do it when he has the nuts or does he bluff. If he has never gone all-in during this session, I would give him some respect this time.

 

[robwhufc]

At those low levels, and bearing in mind you were most active and opponent was on a roll, i would say any made hand, even a pair of 3's. Are you going to say he had K3? That would be a sickener!

 

[colin_147]

Preflop call is good. Not much point betting out to a table full of limpers with a small pair - and if you hit a set you got a whole table to play with

You have hit the flop pretty hard, with not too much to scare you. being 1st to act is not the nicest position to be in but at th elow stakes I would say your bet is just about right. I may even be inclined to check to see if I can get one of my opponents to bet out and a few callers with him, giving me the opportunity to check-raise the field and building the pot

The call on the flop means he may be drawing to a flush or he has a weak J

I aint loving the turn. This could have made his flush, although personally I still reckon he has a weak J

The river isnt the scariest card in the world. If he has KJ, you are unlucky! I cant see him calling with K rag on that flop, and obviously you bea t a flush. If he has a pp higher than a 77, fair play to him!

 

[t1riel]

I think he has Ace-rag suited (diamonds) and was chasing the flush. Maybe even Queen-suited (diamonds). I don't like the small raise on the flop. You caught your set and there are two diamonds on the board thus a flsuh draw is possible. I would have raised more here on the flop.

 

[robwhufc]

I don't like the small raise on the flop. You caught your set and there are two diamonds on the board thus a flsuh draw is possible. I would have raised more here on the flop.

How much would you have bet out of interest?

 

[blankoblanco]

This is going to sound insane, but I'm going to guess he has JJ.

 

[Lo-Dog]

Gord, where are you? Fill in the nice folks as to what the villian had. They are waiting patiently.

 

[gord962]

I was going to wait until tomorrow to post the results, but here they are.

*** SHOW DOWN ***
gord962: shows [7c 7h] (a full house, Sevens full of Kings)
Phil Logan: mucks hand
gord962 collected $7.55 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7.90 Rake $0.35 Board [3d 7s Jd Kd Kc]
Seat 1: airboxguy (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: DERUY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: GeneNTraci folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: devilt folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Buckseed folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Phil Logan mucked [Jc Qd]
Seat 7: TTopGun21 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: gord962 (small blind) showed [7c 7h] and won ($7.55) with a full house, Sevens full of Kings

With my bids the guy had to be thinking I had either a flush or a King. I don't get the call other than he just wasn't paying attention. The only other thing is that he may have thought I had a J as well and he was hoping he had the higher kicker.

I had him on a J when he called the flop, but could figure out what else he had. When he called the all-in I figured he had a K.

 

[penny144]

That is poker for you

That is poker for you, you never know when someone will beat you and not always possible to know what they are holding in their pockets...

 

[t1riel]

How much would you have bet out of interest?

$1-$1.50.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

$1-$1.50.

...into a 50c pot? You're losing value by doing this.

 

[t1riel]

There are two clubs on the flop. Win the pot now and prevent the player from chasing and hitting the flush, thus losing more chips becuase of it. However, the player probably would have called anyway.

 

[robwhufc]

Win the pot now and prevent the player from chasing and hitting the flush, thus losing more chips becuase of it.

The pot being 50c? I think he should he stick his neck out a little bit, hope the opponent has a pair (or that he has got a flush draw which 2/3rds of the time wont hit), and bet a smaller amount to keep him hooked? I dont see how you can have a winning session by winning tiny amounts with big hands - play them to the end, win 3 big pots, lose 2, and you'll make a bigger profit long term i'm sure.

 

[robwhufc]

Oh, and i said Phil Logan had a made hand didn't I! I dont think you can really criticise his play bearing in mind he had top pair - times the buy-in by 10 and it would be a different matter, but $3.80 isn't really a lot to lose in one hand.

 

[t1riel]

Oh, and i said Phil Logan had a made hand didn't I! I dont think you can really criticise his play bearing in mind he had top pair - times the buy-in by 10 and it would be a different matter, but $3.80 isn't really a lot to lose in one hand.

With these blinds and chip stacks, I'd say it's a lot to lose.


HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.05/$0.10)

gord962 ($3.80 in chips)

 

[wsorbust]

With these blinds and chip stacks, I'd say it's a lot to lose.

I agree. $10 is the max. buy-in if I'm not mistaken. 38% of max buy in is a lot to lose...I know, I'm a math wiz.


p.s. He was winning every hand by bullying? I doubt he had anything half the time for that first half hour .. .

 

[robwhufc]

gord962 (small blind) showed [7c 7h] and won ($7.55) with a full house, Sevens full of Kings

 

[t1riel]

Luckily, the opponent didn't catch his flush and gordo caught a full house. My point is, I don't think you should slowplay a set with two or more of the same suit on the board. After all, the opponent could have anything since gordo didn't raise with his pocket pair pre-flop. I think by raising more after the flop if would either get him out of the pot and not chase the flush or he will call since he has top pair. So, gordo could either win more chips by his opponent constantly calling or win a small amount of chips but no risk in being suckout to a flush just by raising more preflop.

 

[gord962]

He was winning every hand by bullying? I doubt he had anything half the time for that first half hour .. .

He had gone to showdown about 75% of the time in the first 1/2 hour and had a really tight hand selection. He was up to about $17 or so and started playing a bit more loose and tried bullying the table with a tight image and big stack. He got caught every time and I was hoping to get a share of the action, which I did.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Luckily, the opponent didn't catch his flush and gordo caught a full house. My point is, I don't think you should slowplay a set with two or more of the same suit on the board. After all, the opponent could have anything since gordo didn't raise with his pocket pair pre-flop. I think by raising more after the flop if would either get him out of the pot and not chase the flush or he will call since he has top pair. So, gordo could either win more chips by his opponent constantly calling or win a small amount of chips but no risk in being suckout to a flush just by raising more preflop.

Sorry, but this is so wrong.

- Half pot betting =/= slowplaying </slight nit>

- Whether hero bets half pot (well, probably slightly over half pot or 468 times the pot, villain does not have odds to draw to the flush.

- Flush draws will miss more often than they hit. Betting enough to keep villain in the hand, but not giving him correct odds to draw is how you will win the most money from these hands in the long run. If you bet 3/4 pot and villain calls, he is making a mistake. We make money in poker from other people's mistakes. By hugely overbetting, hero is not giving villain the opportunity (unless he's a megadonk) to make this mistake. No mistake = less $$$.

What you're saying is akin to someone saying "Always just push allin preflop with Aces so you don't get sucked out on", and that's just daft.

I agree with you regarding the amounts though. No matter what limit table I'm at, I always think in terms of BBs, not $ amounts. For example, $100 is nothing to many people, but others would bite your hands off for it. If $5 is all someone has in their poker bankroll, then that $5 is their very being, their existence in poker, and they're likely to treat it accordingly.

 

[t1riel]

What you're saying is akin to someone saying "Always just push allin preflop with Aces so you don't get sucked out on", and that's just daft.
quote]

That's not really the same thing. All in and a big raise are two different things. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I may be viewed in this thread as a poker player who is clueless about odds, misguided or just a mediocre player but I have to explain my opinion on this situation. I base my opinion on experience. Besides, wouldn't you rather win 5 small pots than lose a big pot?

 

[robwhufc]

I base my opinion on experience. Besides, wouldn't you rather win 5 small pots than lose a big pot?

If you are making a nice profit from your poker, then if playing a certain way works for you then obviously you should stick too it. I just think that a set is such a rarity that you've got to win (or try to win) more than 50 cents when that is only 3 lots of blinds - i think Gord played this right, took a small amount of risk and won 8 times what he would have done if he'd panicked and overbet to take the pot down there and then. I'd rather win $4 3 times out of 5, lose $2 the other 2 times, than win 50 cents 5 times with no losses, but that's just my opinion.