QQ vs river push; 25NL

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Villain is loose passive (~50/8/1), and I've been pretty TAG (~18/12/10).

pokerstars Game #9356116464: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/04/10 - 18:46:00 (ET)
Table 'Althaea V' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: wemukka ($28.70 in chips)
Seat 2: thechippy67 ($34.85 in chips)
Seat 3: Irexes ($23.85 in chips)
Seat 4: kalwin06 ($33.30 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs ($31.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Thomxxx ($19.05 in chips)
Seat 7: gavat ($13.85 in chips)
Seat 8: sangiovesex ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 9: Spader3000 ($21.40 in chips)
ChuckTs: posts small blind $0.10
Thomxxx: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Qh Qs]
gavat: folds
sangiovesex: folds
Spader3000: calls $0.25
wemukka: folds
thechippy67: folds
Irexes: calls $0.25
kalwin06: calls $0.25
ChuckTs: raises $1.25 to $1.50
Thomxxx: folds
Spader3000: folds
Irexes: folds
kalwin06: calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [7h 2c 3c]
ChuckTs: bets $2.50
kalwin06: calls $2.50
*** TURN *** [7h 2c 3c] [Tc]
ChuckTs: bets $6
kalwin06: calls $6
*** RIVER *** [7h 2c 3c Tc] [2s]
ChuckTs: bets $6
kalwin06: raises $17.30 to $23.30 and is all-in
ChuckTs: ...


fwiw, his flop call was long and undecided, his turn call was quick which was kind of odd to me. I'm really lost as to what he has here that fits his line :/

Call? Fold?
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Put quite simply, the less sense villain's actions make, the more likely it is that he has nothing. I'm not saying he's definitely bluffing, but I think we can call this pretty easily, because villain's inconsistent actions make it more likely that you have him beat.

I'm not much for looking too much into the whole concept of online 'tells', but his snap call on the turn is perhaps indicative of a draw he's picked up. Expect to be shown a high club (generally Ac/Kc obv) here most of the time, and I think it's more likely that he's making a move on the river with a busted draw than calling the turn having made a flush, as any river club is likely going to kill his action (or spell trouble for him if he has a low flush).

Of course I'm probably overthinking this - he's 50/8/1 so he could just as easily have something like Ac2 here, but I think there's enough of a chance he's either making a stupid move with nothing or has horribly misplayed and is now 'value' shoving his AT/KT to make this a pretty easy call.

FWIW if my hand magically morphs into 99 or 88 on the river I'm still probably calling this (certainly with AT I am). Anything worse and I guess I'd pass.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Nasty, handing out implied odds like candy there Chuck, against a ~50 i call though. I bet more on the flop pot it, , and try to control the pot on the turn with a smaller bet.

Youve only got 1 pair, errr dont like calling, even though against the player you got i think its a gimmie.
 
Irexes

Irexes

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I was sitting there watching this and I put you squarely on an overpair Chuck, whether he was aware of this I very much doubt,

I put him on 77 and thought it was a good fold when you made it. I'd have done the same thing I think.
 
hott_estelle

hott_estelle

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As loose as he is, the way you said he took a long time to call the flop tells me he's probably on a draw, with somehting like AK clubs or AJ clubs, ect. I don't know if he played any hands similar to this before, however, the way I see it is he was possibly thinking of reraising big there on the flop in order to win the pot right then and there--but just decided to smooth call and hope to hit his club. However, then his quick smooth call on the turn seem completely out of place if he was on the flush draw, since he would have hit. There are many hands that he could possibly have right here that have your hand of QQ beat, obv., but the way he played it--completely unconventionally--shows me he either had a big hand on the flop (like a set) or he hit his big hand on the turn. Either way, I think the play is fold.
 
A

alan1983

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Im leaning towards fold. With the clubs and even the 2...

I dont know if you betting the same on turn and river may have made it look to him he can make a move with nothing, thats a possibility.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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It's $17 for us to call and there is ~$50 in the pot. We have an overpair against a villain who's play makes precious little sense. We have made a very small river bet so villain may well see us as weak and not wanting to commit all our money to the pot.

I really don't know why people are saying fold here.
 
Irexes

Irexes

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I think this hand demonstrates that I am capable of making correct big laydowns Dorkus.

PokerStars Game #9357339593: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/04/10 - 20:02:03 (ET)
Table 'Althaea V' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: A-10Warthog2 ($49.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Irexes ($46.25 in chips)
Seat 4: hott_estelle ($32.25 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs ($31.70 in chips)
Seat 6: Kenzie96 ($6.20 in chips)
Seat 7: Freakakanus ($25 in chips)
Seat 8: dakota-xx ($14.50 in chips)
Seat 9: tenbob ($92.65 in chips)
A-10Warthog2: posts small blind $0.10
Irexes: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Irexes [Ts Tc]
hott_estelle: folds
ChuckTs: folds
Kenzie96: folds
Freakakanus: folds
dakota-xx: folds
Stefanicov joins the table at seat #2
tenbob: raises $1 to $1.25
A-10Warthog2: folds
Irexes said, "o rly?"
dakota-xx said, "raise what? lol"
Irexes: raises $1.75 to $3
tenbob said, "yer"
tenbob said, "really"
tenbob said, ":eek:"
tenbob said, "action"
tenbob said, "resteal ?"
Irexes said, "hopefully"
tenbob said, "9"
hott_estelle said, "lol"
tenbob: raises $6 to $9
Irexes: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [3h 6d Jd]
Irexes: checks
tenbob: bets $37
tenbob said, "whos is bigger"
Irexes said, "hmmmm"
tenbob said, "imcoming fold"
Irexes: raises $0.25 to $37.25 and is all-in
tenbob: calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [3h 6d Jd] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [3h 6d Jd Jc] [7h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Irexes: shows [Ts Tc] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
tenbob: shows [Kd Ks] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
tenbob collected $89.60 from pot
Irexes said, "ho ho"
Stefanicov said, "wow"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $92.60 | Rake $3
Board [3h 6d Jd Jc 7h]
Seat 1: A-10Warthog2 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Irexes (big blind) showed [Ts Tc] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Tens
Seat 4: hott_estelle folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ChuckTs folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Kenzie96 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Freakakanus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: dakota-xx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: tenbob (button) showed [Kd Ks] and won ($89.60) with two pair, Kings and Jacks
 
Lo-Dog

Lo-Dog

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*** FLOP *** [7h 2c 3c]
ChuckTs: bets $2.50
kalwin06: calls $2.50 - thinks a long time about odds for his flush draw
*** TURN *** [7h 2c 3c] [Tc]
ChuckTs: bets $6
kalwin06: calls $6 - hits said flush draw, smooth calls
*** RIVER *** [7h 2c 3c Tc] 2♠
ChuckTs: bets $6
kalwin06: raises $17.30 to $23.30 and is all-in - payoff time?

IDK, standard line I see.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Maybe too early for results, but I fold, he shows J9 off for a stone cold bluff :/

Not making excuses, but I was multitabling and it distracted me some. I also ran through some past hands in my head where I couldn't lay down big pairs to post-flop action, and it leaned my decision towards a fold.

^^^totally agree with you, Dorkus - the less sense a line makes, the more likely it is that villain is making a move/bluffing. I was definitely distracted; a problem i have with multitabling and I didn't really think this one through. It definitely frustrated me :/

Anyways...thanks for the input guys. I definitely need to work on my cash game and I don't think multitabling is the way to do it :p
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Just a suggestion Chuck, this is one of several HA threads ive seen where multi tableing has caused you to make mistakes, move up a limit and play one table only with your full attention for a bit. :)
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Yep, I sux at multitabling.

Will try that tb, ty sir.
 
A

alan1983

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As far as betting, the line doesnt make sense?

Or the time he took to call?

The thing is though the river bet left you in the dark. Betting same as turn and river spells weakness a lot of times.
 
withawedge

withawedge

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HTML:
I put him on 77 and thought it was a good fold when you made it. I'd have done the same thing I think.

^^^

Can you please refrain from saying what happened.

Spoilt Chuck's post

:)
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

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doesnt matter what he did its what u think he should have done:D
 
withawedge

withawedge

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Sorry but I have an opinion as to what Chuck should have done but it is still nice to actually see what happened at the end of the post and not in the middle.
:)
 
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