Position needed to bet a flush draw?

Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Need opinions on this situation:

First few hands at this table so no reads yet (and I was multi-tabling). My hand wasn't pretty but it was free to see the flop from the BB with 4 limpers. I pick up a flush draw on the flop but I'm 2nd to act out of 5 players. I usually bet less than half my flush draws like this. I like to be in better position, to have the Jack or better in hand against so many opponents and to not have 2 overcards on board for the other players to raise at.

In this position, should I:
A) pot bet $1.25 to show strength & get info?
B) overbet the pot to scare away other draws and try to take the pot now, even though 3 others are behind me?
C) check and hope to get a free card? (Then do I fold to a flop bet if I don't get my 4-1 implied pot odds?)
D) push my middling stack?
E) "Other" (anything I didn't think of?)

(I don't think I would consider betting less than the pot due to its small size.)

***** Hand History for Game 5056803696 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, August 29, 15:25:28 ET 2006
Table Table 98356 (real money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: lostnspace2 ( $27.58 )
Seat 7: lebo_king ( $2.05 )
Seat 9: PDSticker ( $12.65 )
Seat 2: Gregorio_54 ( $11.47 )
Seat 5: vanclio ( $30.07 )
Seat 10: cardguy500 ( $24.40 )
Seat 6: FUNHOUSE33 ( $26.75 )
Seat 4: slanglb2 ( $24.75 )
Seat 3: Zombie_Turtle ( $24.75 )
lebo_king posts small blind [$0.10].
PDSticker posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PDSticker [ 7c Tc ]
cardguy500 calls [$0.25].
lostnspace2 folds.
Gregorio_54 folds.
Zombie_Turtle folds.
slanglb2 folds.
vanclio calls [$0.25].
lynnev has joined the table.
FUNHOUSE33 calls [$0.25].
lebo_king calls [$0.15].
PDSticker checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, Qc, Ah ]
lebo_king checks.
PDSticker ...
cardguy500 ...
vanclio ...
FUNHOUSE33 ...
 
Last edited:
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
Check here , being 1st to act and hope for a cheap or free card. Cause 3 others to act behind you and lets say you bet, and someone re-raises then you have to make a decision to call especially if it becomes a 2:1 pot bet on a 3:5.1 to hit.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
check. This is a bad flop to lead out into even though noone has shown strength. You're out of position, and won't get too much info if someone cold calls your bet. Usually a smaller bet (say 1/3 the pot) would be much better if you choose to lead out; if you get a call, then you're drawing with good pot odds, and if someone raises you, you can either get away easily or draw further if the pot odds warrant a call.

Drawing out of position is one of the hardest situations to play.

Check-raising is also an option: search the FullTilt 'tips from the pros' newsletters on their site. There was a recent one exactly about this situation, and how check-raising can be a good option sometimes. Good read.
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
A check here is like checking in the dark in a live game. You are going to pass right now because you are sure some else will bet it out here and then you can see if you have the odds to call when it comes to your turn again. You may even get lucky and see for free if everyone else is scared of that flop since it is 5 limpers.

Check/raise could possibly win you the pot as long as no one has the set. That is what I fear when I see 5 people in a hand. The middle PP that is just waiting for you to do that.

Firing out right here is my least favorite. You still have 4 people that could reraise you. You are on a draw but not a nut draw by any means. Your odds of getting all 4 to fold to a bet you would really want to make is low so I don't like this option here.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Check and hope for a free card. There's only a 35% chance another of your suit's going to come anyway. You want to put as little money in as possible. Plus you don't want to scare anyone away.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Looks like the consensus is "Check". So I played this correctly. Maybe my 2/3-pot turn bet when I hit my flush was too small, but I don't think this guy would have laid it down to a pot-sized bet anyway. The same card that gave me my flush gave him a set. Then look how the poker gods crapped on my river.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, Qc, Ah ]
lebo_king checks.
PDSticker checks.
cardguy500 checks.
vanclio checks.
FUNHOUSE33 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
lebo_king checks.
PDSticker bets [$0.85].
cardguy500 calls [$0.85].
vanclio folds.
FUNHOUSE33 folds.
lebo_king folds.
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
PDSticker bets [$1.51].
cardguy500 raises [$4.02].
PDSticker calls [$2.51].
cardguy500 shows [ 2d, 2h ] a full house, Twos full of aces.
PDSticker doesn't show [ 7c, Tc ] a flush, queen high.
cardguy500 wins $10.49 from the main pot with a full house, Twos full of aces.

My flush was only a 3-1 favorite at the turn against his set of deuces (77%/23%), so I don't think I'd call it a bad beat. But I still thought I had it wrapped up right then. In the end, I didn't know if I played it correctly until now.

Any thoughts from those of you who give a rip?
 
gord962

gord962

Legend
I would have overbet on the turn to take down the pot. At this point with 7-10 you dont want the person with overcards in clubs drawing out on the river. If you get a call or re-raise you now have to be worried that someone else has also hit their flush.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
I think you bet it fine; you gave a flush draw and a full house draw bad odds, but ended up paying off the implied odds with the call on the river. Nothing else you could do; the FH is too hidden since people have checked the flop, then only called a bet on the turn. You have to call IMO, and it's unfortunate that you were beat. Chalk it up to bad luck, and pat yourself on the back for playing it well (at least in my books :))
 
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