Middle set NLHE Ring Game

[Schatzdog]

Hey guys,

This could be used as a comparison to the thread going around about the bottom set and whether or not to lead. The more I look at this hand the less I like the way I played it. All comments welcome.

The table is fairly passive and not too sophisticated. Seat 9 and 7 are rockish so happy they aren't in the hand. PTOCH called a 4xBB raise with Kc5c in MP.

Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25)
Seat 1: Schatzdog ($25.90 in chips)
Seat 3: PTOCH ($10.95 in chips)
Seat 4: sh1n0bi ($31.65 in chips)
Seat 5: exprokev ($13.55 in chips)
Seat 6: cheiz ($14.40 in chips)
Seat 7: sycamore333 ($27.90 in chips)
Seat 8: BIGSAVE77 ($6.25 in chips)
Seat 9: philnkaz ($24.60 in chips)
philnkaz: posts small blind $0.10
Schatzdog: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Schatzdog [4d 4c]
PTOCH: raises $0.50 to $0.75
adairish was removed from the table for failing to post
sh1n0bi: calls $0.75
exprokev: folds
cheiz: folds
sycamore333: folds
BIGSAVE77: calls $0.75
philnkaz: folds
Schatzdog: calls $0.50. In the big blind and getting 5.2 to 1 on my money. Not too great but implieds are good.
*** FLOP *** [3d Kc 4h] Bingo
Schatzdog: bets $3 Looking for a call or raise from TP or maybe overs. Surely this bet is too big?
PTOCH: folds
sh1n0bi: folds
BIGSAVE77: folds
Schatzdog collected $2.95 from pot. Hmmmmmmmm

Is checking this or betting smaller the better play?

 

[Dingodaddy23]

betting a lil smaller is probably right...especially on this pretty much drawless board.. but if the raiser had a decent K he is definately not folding...so you probably wouldn't have made much either way, so I still think the right play is to lead because at these stakes, nobody is folding AK or even KQ here.

 

[Bombjack]

I think there are some extra reasons to check here.

If someone has the King, they'll bet it, so you can call them and build a pot. Maybe check-raise the turn, depending how strong you think they are.

If you bet, and no-one has the king, it looks like you've got it, and they'll almost certainly fold and you won't get any action. They might even fold a weak king, as you're representing real strength by betting out as first to act.

In the other example, you might get someone calling with a medium pair or just overcards. Unlikely here.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

I think there are some extra reasons to check here.

Yep. In addition to what Bombjack said, this pot has been raised UTG preflop, so at least one person is representing real strength, unlike the other hand where it was limped 7 ways. Therefore someone betting behind you is more likely.

I don't hate leading the flop, but certainly you shouldn't be betting so much - try 2/3 pot and if UTG has AK/KQ or something like QQ/JJ then you're probably going to be taking him on a trip to valuetown.

 

[loopmeister]

I'd also put in a smaller bet; 1/3 to 1/2 the pot.

I think the key difference between this flop and the "bottom set" thread is that the king on the board-- it's a scare card. There, a big bet suggests a steal attempt. Here, it's saying pair o' kings. That should scare off most people, unless they're holding a king themselves.

But with no obvious straight draws and no flush draws, a check would have been okay as well; generally I hate giving free cards, but in this case it's probably safe.

As a guess I reckon I'd lead out about 75% of the time and check 25% of the time.

That everyone folded is one of those things. How many times have I picked up just the blinds with AA with a 3x - 5x BB raise? Annoying, I know

 

[F Paulsson]

I think the key difference between this flop and the "bottom set" thread is that the king on the board

I agree that the flop texture here makes a big difference, but the KEY difference between this and the other hand is this:

this pot has been raised UTG preflop

 

[Bombjack]

Super System says lead into the raiser in this situation, and hope he raises you. I suppose if the raiser doesn't have a King or Aces, you're not going to get much action anyway. But I suppose by checking you give him the chance to bluff at it.

 

[Schatzdog]

I'll usually lead this hand out but I think the bet was too big. 1/2 or 2/3 the pot would've been better.

The table was pretty passive and this hand came up quite early on in the session. Later on I was stealing blinds regularly and bluffing pots without being called down. In light of this I don't think any bet on the hand in discussion would've been called, except by a king.