Interesting!!! Omaha hi lo PL $0.25/0.50. Flop a set but 8 in hand!!! Best action???

Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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I`m trying to get to grips with Omaha hi lo pl. I am doing well, i.e. making money.

I would be interested to know how you guys would have played this hand from where I let you take it over.

***** Hand History for Game 6940653384 *****
0.25/0.50 OmahaHiLoGameTable (PL) - Fri Apr 04 05:50:14 EDT 2008
Table Table 126960 (real money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Hancala ( $19.84)
Seat 2: girf1 ( $42.49)
Seat 3: macharti666 ( $26.84)
Seat 4: Ronaldadio ( $46.95)
Seat 5: bathhouse81 ( $17.95)
Seat 7: valkush ( $35.03)
Seat 8: emilios333 ( $56.78)
Seat 9: Sukcram ( $49.50)
Seat 10: annajulia222 ( $67.24)
valkush posts small blind (0.25)
Sukcram posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Ronaldadio [ Jd, 5s, Qc, Jh ]
annajulia222 folds
Hancala calls (0.50)
girf1 calls (0.50)
macharti666 calls (0.50)
Ronaldadio calls (0.50)
bathhouse81 calls (0.50)
valkush calls (0.25)
Sukcram checks
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6d, 4s, Js ]
valkush checks
Sukcram checks
Hancala checks
girf1 checks
macharti666 checks
Ronaldadio ???
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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flop. fold. pre.

Sort above 3 words into correct order.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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flop. fold. pre.

Sort above 3 words into correct order.

lol :D .

Everyone was limping every hand. The guy to act after me had not raised until the river, ever!!!

So, as I am here now, what next?
 
benevg

benevg

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fold pre-flop. as was said.

if you bet, how many of those people will fold?
really, you are not in a very good position. you might have the best hand right now, but there is a low draw, which will take half the pot from you if it hits. there is a flush draw, and the low draw also works for a straight sometimes. 8 people in the hand probably means you will lose by the end of the hand, especially if they don't like folding much. all in all... not very exciting. (i hope you bet and won a huge pot that hand.)
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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if you bet, how many of those people will fold?
really, you are not in a very good position. you might have the best hand right now, but there is a low draw, which will take half the pot from you if it hits. there is a flush draw, and the low draw also works for a straight sometimes. 8 people in the hand probably means you will lose by the end of the hand, especially if they don't like folding much. all in all... not very exciting. (i hope you bet and won a huge pot that hand.)

I acept the fold preflop argument, although I don`t think it was a desperatly bad call knowing I had the odds to hit my set.

The point I was wanting to discuss was post flop. We have found ourselves in the position we are (I`m sure all of us have done this, made a dubious call then hit the flop big)

So what is your next move???
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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I acept the fold preflop argument, although I don`t think it was a desperatly bad call knowing I had the odds to hit my set.

The point I was wanting to discuss was post flop. We have found ourselves in the position we are (I`m sure all of us have done this, made a dubious call then hit the flop big)

So what is your next move???

You say you are making a profit from O/8 and from my observations of online poker the last 6 months, I really don't doubt that at all but you definately have a lot of scope to improve your game (as we all do). Omaha Hi Lo isn't Hold em, you shouldn't be looking to hit sets 6,7,8 way in hi lo. You should be looking to scoop - nut hi Ace flush, Full House, and nut low A,2,3,4,5. If you play substandard starting hands, you'll hit muddled flops, you'll be drawing to and hitting the 2nd or 3rd nut flush, you'll be hitting good lows when your opponents will have better lows, and you'll be hitting mid and bottom straights when your opponents will be hitting top straights.

In poor games (like Titan) you can blunder your way to a profit by doing this, but you'll get found out by better and tighter players who only need a little bit of luck to stack you over and over again.

So i'm not going to answer the "what would you do now?" question, as it's redundant - good O/8 players won't find themselves in these ahead-but vulnerable situations because you are compelled to bet out, and will face awkward decisions ("hopefully opponent has only hit low and hasn't got a flush, and my trips are still good for half the pot") on the turn and river.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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I acept the fold preflop argument, although I don`t think it was a desperatly bad call knowing I had the odds to hit my set.

This isn't holdem - your sets will not win nearly as often.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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Oh, what I would give to have been like others and never to have made a mistake!!!

I know all this!!! But I made the play, hit my set, what now???

Set could become FH, etc, etc, etc, etc. The point is, I have a set on a board that has flush possible, lo possible, straight possible, what now?

rob, if I`m making a profit why would I want to move up yet? I`ve only been playing Omaha hl pl since Jan and I have made a good profit each month. (ring games about $1,500 + about $1,000 in mtt & sng`s)

I am asking for help here as I have hit a set with lots of people in pot. I appreciate how I got there and most of the time I would not play the same cards.

It would be nice, however, if someone could give some constructive ideas on how to take the pot from where I am, to go with the very valid points already made.

I guess you are not saying I should fold because I should not have been in the pot in the first place???

:D
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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I know all this!!! But I made the play, hit my set, what now???

Set could become FH, etc, etc, etc, etc. The point is, I have a set on a board that has flush possible, lo possible, straight possible, what now?

You can see what you are asking Ron, you've played a hand that all 3 people that have replied would have folded because you were looking to have hit your set, you HAVE hit that set, and now you are looking for advice? You needed to have a plan beforehand, the situation that you are in - top set with numerous opponents is the best you could have hoped for, so maybe I should flip the question back to you - what should you do now?

If we look at it, the cards that you dont want to see on the turn or river are the following

Ace (4)
2 (4)
3 (4)
5 (4)
7 (4)
8 (4)

which would all put a low on board, immediately taking half the pot away.

Which of these would also put a straight on board? the 2,3,5,7 and the 8. Now we are out of the low, and probably with amount of opponents out of high too.

The low spades would also put a flush on board, taking the high away.

We also don't want to see the remaining spades (apart from the 6) - 9s 10s Qs and Ks, as that puts a flush on board which beats our trips.

The other Queens and Kings? Could put a higher set on board, though maybe that's possible rather than probable.

So what do you want? The case Jack, obv. The other 2 4's and 6's (and hope no one hits quads). and the 2 9's and 10's (though not a 9 AND a 10).

So what, 2/3rds - 3/4ths bad, 1/3rd - 1/4 good? For the flop you wanted? OK, you are the one that's made the decision to get to this point, so what to do?

You tell me? Check raise? Call and hope one of your cards hits? Bet the pot and hope it clears out the field and you end up safe or taking the high? check it down? How can you fold here, when you called pre-flop?

So what did you do?

Ronaldadio said:
rob, if I`m making a profit why would I want to move up yet? I`ve only been playing Omaha hl pl since Jan and I have made a good profit each month. (ring games about $1,500 + about $1,000 in mtt & sng`s)

As I said don't doubt it, but you'd surely win more playing well against bad opponents than by playing poorly against worst opponents? Or maybe you wouldn't, i'm not sure nowadays to be honest.
 
Last edited:
dj11

dj11

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Be the first to bet here. Opponents will be thinking you have the low before they will be thinking you have a set. Then pray that the board pairs. At a limpy table, first in vigorish gives you more power than no action at all.

At this point in the hand the odds of a flush filling, and/or the board pairing are roughly the same (~~25%).

Bet here. 1/2 pot will thin the field a lot at a limpy table. The alternative check here will limit the size of a pot bet if the flush falls on the turn, or a little card falls. BTW, do you think a $3.50 pot bot here will take the pot? If so a pot bet here is not out of the question. I don't think you want to see another card if you believe you can take it down here.

I have to think that your reads at this particular table get real important with a hand like this.
 
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benevg

benevg

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BTW, do you think a $3.50 pot bot here will take the pot? If so a pot bet here is not out of the question. I don't think you want to see another card if you believe you can take it down here.

I have to think that your reads at this particular table get real important with a hand like this.
||
if you bet, how many of those people will fold?

answer that, and we'd tell you what to do. if nobody folds to that bet, you want to keep the pot as small as possible. if you are winning with any bet, find that bet and put it out there.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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Here is what I did - the result is irrelivant.

What I was trying to get my head around, being new to Omaha hl pl, was was I being too timid?

I have put my thoughs in next to the hand history.

Also, I do agree, if I had folded I would never have been in this kind of position - even to the very end!!!
***** Hand History for Game 6940653384 *****
0.25/0.50 OmahaHiLoGameTable (PL) - Fri Apr 04 05:50:14 EDT 2008
Table Table 126960 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Hancala ( $19.84)
Seat 2: girf1 ( $42.49)
Seat 3: macharti666 ( $26.84)
Seat 4: Ronaldadio ( $46.95)
Seat 5: bathhouse81 ( $17.95)
Seat 7: valkush ( $35.03)
Seat 8: emilios333 ( $56.78)
Seat 9: Sukcram ( $49.50)
Seat 10: annajulia222 ( $67.24)
valkush posts small blind (0.25)
Sukcram posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Ronaldadio [ Jd, 5s, Qc, Jh ]
annajulia222 folds
Hancala calls (0.50)
girf1 calls (0.50)
macharti666 calls (0.50)
Ronaldadio calls (0.50) (Lots of limpers, lets c a flop)
bathhouse81 calls (0.50)
valkush calls (0.25)
Sukcram checks
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6d, 4s, Js ]
valkush checks
Sukcram checks
Hancala checks
girf1 checks
macharti666 checks
Ronaldadio checks (Yippeeeee, but. If I raise all the lo hand chasers will call along with flush chasers, etc. I`ll see the next card for free. If it is a high card and not a spade I`ll raise)
bathhouse81 checks
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9d ]
valkush checks
Sukcram bets (3.33)
Hancala calls (3.33)
girf1 calls (3.33)
macharti666 calls (3.33)
Ronaldadio calls (3.33) (no need to raise and no way my pot size raise is gonna clear these out)
bathhouse81 calls (3.33)
valkush calls (3.33)
** Dealing River ** : [ Qh ]
valkush checks
Sukcram checks
Hancala checks
girf1 checks
macharti666 checks
Ronaldadio bets (10) (They can`t have much, so raise. IMO, this was a bigger mistake than the rest in this hand - I`m only gonna get called by K10 here. After I put in the bet I wished I had not. However, I didnt want the last guy to act to put me to a decision and I was hoping someone with 2 pair migh wanna have a look)
bathhouse81 folds
valkush folds
Sukcram folds
Hancala folds
girf1 folds
macharti666 folds
** Summary **
Main Pot: $25.47 | Rake: $1.34
Board: [ 6d 4s Js 9d Qh ]
Hancala balance $16.01, lost $3.83 (folded)
girf1 balance $38.66, lost $3.83 (folded)
macharti666 balance $23.01, lost $3.83 (folded)
Ronaldadio balance $68.59, bet $13.83, collected $35.47, net +$21.64
bathhouse81 balance $14.12, lost $3.83 (folded)
valkush balance $31.20, lost $3.83 (folded)
emilios333 balance $56.78, sits out
Sukcram balance $50, lost $3.83 (folded)
annajulia222 balance $67.24, didn't bet (folded)
 
S

switch0723

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so let me get this right, you called pre flop to hit the set (which was not the right play but whatever), then you refused to bet/raise with the nuts on the flop and the turn, but were willing to bet without the nuts on the river
 
Last edited:
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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so let me get this right, you called pre flop to hit the set (which was not the right play but whatever), then you refused to bet/raise with the nuts on the flop and the turn, but were willing to bet without the nuts on the river

Thats about the size of it!!!

I need a simple answer to a simple question - it is my fault the way I posted this.

When I hit the set, based on the amount of potential drawing hands, I don`t think I would have been fav on the flop?

Is that right or wrong?
 
S

switch0723

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i see what you mean, and i really dont know. Maybe your equity in the hand was pretty low based on cards you didnt want to see. So maybe checking was the best option. this reminds me why i prefer omaha instead of hi/low. I can never work out the best action in hi/low. I

f your really interested in knowing the best action. Pm skoldpadda and ask him if he wouldn't mind checking it out, since he is a beast at hi/low
 
bob_tiger

bob_tiger

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ok since everybody is just kind of ignoring your question and keep telling you to fold pre flop I willl try to answer your question since I'm pretty good at omaha h/l and used to do pretty good at the level your playing, anyways thats beside the point. With this hand yes i agree you should fold pre flop, you have no suited cards and even if you do hit the flush you will be up against a tough decision whether your flush is good enough or no and all of that has been mentioned i know.

Ok first of all on the flop you want to lead out and bet in order to get rid of some players and not let them see a free card, the less people in the pot the better chance of you winning. Ok since you didn't do that and on the turn another player bet 3.33 and got 3 callers before you I would make a huge raise to show that you have a set from my experience I'm pretty sure most of them except 1 or 2 maybe would fold. On the river I would just make a small bet make it look like a value bet, most people wont raise you unless they know they have the nuts so you will at least get to see what the other player has. To be honest having a set in omaha h/l with no low draws and no flush draws is very dangerous, so next time fold that. For example my fav hand in omaha h/l is Ah2hAc3c because they are double suited and lets say flop comes Ad 7c Kc this will give me a good low draw a chance to hit a full house and a flush draw, those are the type of hands you want to be playing. Omaha h/l is hard for me to explain I just play on my experience and for your last post, no you were not favorite with all of those outs. On the turn you were still not favorite to win because of how many people in the pot and you are pretty lucky all of them missed their draws.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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Thanks bob.

I have started to think with Omaha hi lo PL you get so many limpers you could be missing some value if you only play premium hands.

I do appreciate what the rest of the guys are saying, but to an extent if u play less than premium hands you need to know when to fold - the poker Worlds best example being Gus Hansen?

Just a thought.
 
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