Did I make an OK move?

K

kozlo6pack

Legend
Awards
2
I am very curious about this hand. I think I made a good call. However the person I beat out called me many names. Am I on the right track with this crazy game of poker?????
Trish


pokerstars Game #5247477468: Tournament #26171738, $1.00+$0.10 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2006/06/13 - 23:15:32 (ET)
Table '26171738 54' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: darcar333 (1725 in chips)
Seat 2: kozlo6pack (1650 in chips)
Seat 3: WillieDM3 (1730 in chips)
Seat 4: FreddyBoy17 (1370 in chips)
Seat 5: Karen L (1330 in chips)
Seat 6: catman56 (1510 in chips)
Seat 7: ocscienceguy (1710 in chips)
Seat 8: GHSE00011364 (1470 in chips)
Seat 9: bralar (1005 in chips)
Karen L: posts small blind 10
catman56: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to kozlo6pack [Qs Ts]
ocscienceguy: folds
GHSE00011364: folds
bralar: raises 20 to 40
darcar333: folds
kozlo6pack: calls 40
WillieDM3: folds
FreddyBoy17: folds
Karen L: calls 30
catman56: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d Kd Jc]
Karen L: checks
bralar: bets 965 and is all-in
kozlo6pack: calls 965
Karen L: folds
*** TURN *** [3d Kd Jc] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [3d Kd Jc 2s] [Ac]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
bralar: shows [Kc Kh] (three of a kind, Kings)
kozlo6pack: shows [Qs Ts] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
kozlo6pack collected 2070 from pot
AceWars is connected
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2070 | Rake 0
Board [3d Kd Jc 2s Ac]
Seat 1: darcar333 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: kozlo6pack showed [Qs Ts] and won (2070) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 3: WillieDM3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: FreddyBoy17 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Karen L (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: catman56 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: ocscienceguy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: GHSE00011364 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: bralar showed [Kc Kh] and lost with three of a kind, Kings
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Bad call that got lucky. Here's why:

An open-ended straight draw gives you 8 outs. 8 outs = 5-1 break-even odds, meaning you should call if your pot odds are 5-1 or more and fold if they are 4-1 or less.

Flop decision: 1105 in the pot & 965 to call = 1.14-1 pot odds. (not even close to 5-1)

The only excuse to make this call is if you thought this player was a total bluffing idiot making a play and even then it's probably not worth risking your tournament life.

Hope the names you were called weren't too harsh, but just realize you were very lucky here.
 
A

AceZWylD

Visionary
I would be cussing at you too. It is too early in a tournament to be making this kind of call. The only time that I would make this kind of call is if it was late stages of a tourney and I was near chip lead, and I was trying to push out a small stack.
 
W

whatsdabet

Guest
To tell you the truth I would have been pretty mad as well. Your kind of like those people that I describe in my "Three easy steps to freeroll success" topic, in which they go all-in or call big raises with nothing but draws or would be good hands. Its not only rude, its not good playing overall. But then again that is just my opinion, I guess some people just like to live on the dangerous side, which is kind of necessary in poker! (Some of us have to have balls!)
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
Cant add much to the 3 replies above Kozlo. Curious as to why you think it was a good call? Pot odds are the single most important element in poker - you need to get your head around this if you want to be a winning player.
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

Rock Star
Kozlo, I'm going to agree with what everyone said above. What I think you should do is put yourself in the shoes of the OP in this case. You have pocket K's and hit trips on the flop. You see two diamonds on the board so to protect your hand, you go all in. If you had the flush draw (which you don't) you would theoretically have 9 outs. Using 4/2 that gives you odds of 36% on the turn and 18% on the river to hit. He's asking you to bet 50% of the pot...not good odds.

As to what you actually have....You're on an open ended straight draw, you have 8 outs. You're committing 50% of the pot for a 32% and 16% chance of hitting. Like others said, he has every right to berate you. That is a bad beat on a hand that he dominates you with. If I were him, I'd put you on my buddy list and look for you in a ring game. As ChuckT says many times on the bad beat boards, that type of play is what you want to play against.
 
Last edited:
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
medeiros13 said:
As to what you actually have....You're on a gutshot straight draw, you have 4 outs.
Nope, it's an open ended draw - as Mr Sticker said there's 8 outs, any Ace or any 9. Doesn't really change the facts though.
 
Vintage82

Vintage82

Guest
I gotta agree with everyone so far, however Bralar's min raise preflop doesnt exactly do himself any favours.

Why bother risking that many chips in the 1st level? :eek:
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
It definatly was the wrong call granted, and yes you hit your straight.
These are the calls that we want others to make against us. If they hit the open ended straight draw like you did, there is no need for name calling.These are the calls I love against me but when someone hits like you did on this call, I won't name call. Just note you down as such just in case I play you again on a later date.

He made the bet and you obliged him by calling. However the overbet would have screamed to me as "nothing holding on a mini pre-flop raise".
A pot bet would have been sufficient enough to see who may have the flush or the open ended straight draw.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
twizzybop said:
These are the calls that we want others to make against us. If they hit the open ended straight draw like you did, there is no need for name calling.These are the calls I love against me but when someone hits like you did on this call, I won't name call. Just note you down as such just in case I play you again on a later date.
Definately right - it's a $1 game/ freeroll move to berate someone for a bad play. The last thing you want is to alert players to their bad play (sorry Kozlo :eek: ). Problem with P'Stars is there are so many players, you'll probably never play the same opponent twice!

And Kozlo, you paid your dollar like everyone else, you can play what ever cards you want, however you want - a reply like "Gus Hansen would have made that play", or "I know, but Q 10 is my lucky hand" would really have made him blow his top!
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

Rock Star
robwhufc said:
Nope, it's an open ended draw - as Mr Sticker said there's 8 outs, any Ace or any 9. Doesn't really change the facts though.

Caught me before my edit :)
 
T

tranqxility

Enthusiast
No way I would have made that play. And I would have been a little upset over the suckout you pulled as well.

And, heh, anyone's gonna think they made a good call when you end up winning the hand. You just have to realize you got lucky, and you'll be unlucky more times than you will.
 
M

mec1331

Guest
I would have gotten pretty mad if I would have lost to a hand like that also. You had K high on the flop with an up and down straight draw, but that doesnt meant you actually have it. In most instances you are going to get busted when you call hands like that. The only time I would consider call an all in is if I had an up and down straight draw and a flush draw. You can't call with hands like that or you are going to end up with no money eventually. You may get lucky a few times, but your luck will run out eventually. Sorry for the harshness.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
If there was JT on the board and you had KQ, then it could be a reasonable call for the possible outs given by your overcards as well as the open-ended straight draw. However, given the situation, you have to assume the other player is at least protecting top pair, and you're drawing only to 8 outs. What logical reason or odds suggested to you that it was the right call?
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

Legend
Awards
9
I would agree with all above that folding was the proper response. Not quite sure why all the outrage though. People regularly call allins with much worse cards than what you held. Nature of the internet beast so to speak. Rob speaks words of wisdom though & should be heeded.
 
El Viajero

El Viajero

Guest
robwhufc said:
And Kozlo, you paid your dollar like everyone else, you can play what ever cards you want, however you want - a reply like "Gus Hansen would have made that play", or "I know, but Q 10 is my lucky hand" would really have made him blow his top!

Hey, QT is my lucky hand!
 
K

kozlo6pack

Legend
Awards
2
Well..................I have played in a few of these games and I thought it was a good call because I thought I had good odds, problem is I see is that I am really messed up with my odds. I try to watch the way other people play and I try to play like them. I guess this is not the way:eek: :eek:
I figured him for maybe a pair or two. I get busted out this way a lot when I play in the dollar games(pocket pairs). I try to play different when its a higher buy in. I know I need to go back to the drawing board and start over buy the looks of it.

BTW I really appreciate everyone's comments on my play. I should do this more often and maybe I would get better:)


Dorkus Malorkus said:
I'm genuinely curious, why do you think this? ;)
 
wsorbust

wsorbust

Cardschat Elite
bralar: raises 20 to 40
He raises to twice the big blind with K's? Then goes all in after the flop hit?

Correct move on his part with going all in after the flop. He wouldnt have got beaten by you if he would have raised a higher amount preflop, as he should have. . .Maybe 6 or 7x the BB. It's only a $1 Tourney....eh It's a coinflip in my mind if I would have gone all-in or not. . .whether it's the right move or not.
 
S

senadiel

Guest
by the way, it sounds like you have some reading to do Kozlo. Super system 1 by brunson, Harrington 1 and 2, and then after you finish those pick up tournament poker for advanced players by Sklansky to round out your tourney strat... after that, play tens of thousands of hands, and you will improve ;)
 
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