Folding AA here! Right or Wrong?

aloevera

aloevera

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pokerstars Game #17671694111: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/05/25 - 01:14:00 (ET)
Table 'Hera V' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: rob5775 ($23.45 in chips)
Seat 2: cheapest ($12.90 in chips)
Seat 3: smokeyfatty ($8.10 in chips)
Seat 4: bagnus ($28.15 in chips)
Seat 5: SvgePenguin ($27.20 in chips)
Seat 6: 1bourbon1 ($18.65 in chips)
Seat 7: aloevera ($31.20 in chips)
Seat 8: PLF_DBA_MAN ($30.40 in chips)
Seat 9: vsw4545 ($23.90 in chips)
rob5775: posts small blind $0.10
cheapest: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aloevera [Ac As]
smokeyfatty: folds
bagnus: folds
SvgePenguin: folds
1bourbon1: folds
aloevera: raises $0.50 to $0.75
PLF_DBA_MAN: folds
vsw4545: folds
rob5775: calls $0.65
cheapest: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js 5s 6d]
rob5775: checks
aloevera: bets $0.75
rob5775: raises $1.25 to $2
aloevera: raises $2 to $4
rob5775: calls $2
*** TURN *** [Js 5s 6d] [9h]
PLF_DBA_MAN said, "me too"
rob5775: checks
aloevera: checks
*** RIVER *** [Js 5s 6d 9h] [5c]
rob5775 said, "lol"
PLF_DBA_MAN said, "i just won a pot"
rob5775: bets $6
PLF_DBA_MAN said, "im running"
aloevera said, "lol"
rob5775 said, "april...."
aloevera said, "I really hate folding AA"
aloevera: folds
Uncalled bet ($6) returned to rob5775
rob5775 collected $9.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.75 | Rake $0.45
Board [Js 5s 6d 9h 5c]
Seat 1: rob5775 (small blind) collected ($9.30)
Seat 2: cheapest (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: smokeyfatty folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: bagnus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: SvgePenguin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 1bourbon1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: aloevera folded on the River
Seat 8: PLF_DBA_MAN folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: vsw4545 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
F

feitr

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I wouldn't have unless you have reads telling you otherwise. I can't see this being 2 pair and 87 seems unlikely to call HU preflop. I guess a set is a possibility but a busted flush draw is probably betting this on the river. You're getting almost 4:1 on your money so you only need to be right like 1/3 times for this to be profitable.

What did you think he had btw? I'm a little confused about this fold.
 
aloevera

aloevera

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I wouldn't have unless you have reads telling you otherwise. I can't see this being 2 pair and 87 seems unlikely to call HU preflop. I guess a set is a possibility but a busted flush draw is probably betting this on the river. You're getting almost 4:1 on your money so you only need to be right like 1/3 times for this to be profitable.

What did you think he had btw? I'm a little confused about this fold.

Well first of all obv I know the players at the table...and yes had a read on him...He was drunk tonight:p

When I go back and look at this hand I made mistakes.

*** FLOP *** [Js 5s 6d]
rob5775: checks
aloevera: bets $0.75
rob5775: raises $1.25 to $2 ...first sign that told me he may have a strong hand preflop. pocket pr...soooted connectors Ax
aloevera: raises $2 to $4 ....could have just called or raised more?
rob5775: calls $2....didn't scare him called quickly
*** TURN *** [Js 5s 6d] 9♥
rob5775: checks .....weak or ambush?
aloevera: checks .....prob should of bet out at least 3$ here to see his next move.
*** RIVER *** [Js 5s 6d 9h] 5♣
rob5775 said, "april...." calls out my name ...why? Warning me not to take all his chips? or warning me he got me beat?:D and don't forget he's drunk:)
aloevera said, "I really hate folding AA"
aloevera: folds
Uncalled bet ($6) returned to rob5775

He said he will tell us tomorrow what he had...my gut tells me he had me beat at the time. But now I'm not so sure.:eek:

But looking at that hand, and if I was in a tourney I'm sure I would be calling that with no hesitation.:)
 
S

sta123

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Looks like you played it fine if you're read was good and you thought you were beat thats enough to fold, I definitely wouldn't of folded without any reads.

Edit: definitely bet on the turn but you said that yourself
 
L

LUCIUS VARENUS

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I think this is a pretty bad fold since the opponent looks very much like he has a Jack
 
tenbob

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Wow. Please call that river bet. Surely a drunk player raises JJ pre :)

We can get a range pretty easily here. AJ/KJ, 55 (unlikely) 66, and the unlikely flush draws. We need to know how often he has overplayed the tp type hands to make the call profitable ?

Quick question, if this is the only situation that you ever get into do you call ? I do.
 
SavagePenguin

SavagePenguin

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I folded a 6 so it's probably not a set of 6's, and any 5 is unlikely. What you're fearing here is J/J, which is totally in his range.

I think he'd have done the same thing with A/J or any overpair as well. Heck, I might do it against you with T/T after you failed to bet the turn and the scary (thought it shouldn't be) 5 came up, thinking I could chase you off JJ-like hands. (It's easy to get married to A/A so I wouldn't expect you to fold it if I thought you had it).

I remember at the time, thinking that you made the correct fold. I don't remember what made me think that though. Probably that Rob knows you're tight and aren't likely to be holding junk like over cards or T/T'ish pairs.

In a typical $25 NL game against a typical player, I'd call it down.
 
F

feitr

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Well first of all obv I know the players at the table...and yes had a read on him...He was drunk tonight:p

When I go back and look at this hand I made mistakes.

*** FLOP *** [Js 5s 6d]
rob5775: checks
aloevera: bets $0.75
rob5775: raises $1.25 to $2 ...first sign that told me he may have a strong hand preflop. pocket pr...soooted connectors Ax
aloevera: raises $2 to $4 ....could have just called or raised more?
rob5775: calls $2....didn't scare him called quickly
*** TURN *** [Js 5s 6d] 9♥
rob5775: checks .....weak or ambush?
aloevera: checks .....prob should of bet out at least 3$ here to see his next move.
*** RIVER *** [Js 5s 6d 9h] 5♣
rob5775 said, "april...." calls out my name ...why? Warning me not to take all his chips? or warning me he got me beat?:D and don't forget he's drunk:)
aloevera said, "I really hate folding AA"
aloevera: folds
Uncalled bet ($6) returned to rob5775

He said he will tell us tomorrow what he had...my gut tells me he had me beat at the time. But now I'm not so sure.:eek:

But looking at that hand, and if I was in a tourney I'm sure I would be calling that with no hesitation.:)

Yea sure i recognize a few of those names but i still don't understand the fold. Busted flush draw, AJ, QQ-KK are all realistically making this river bet. I think you are reading too much into friendly chat/banter. The river bet is so small...you only have to be right slightly less than 1/3 of the time, so are you trying to say you think he has a set ~3/4 of the time here?
 
aloevera

aloevera

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Looking at this today, I should have called this no matter what, actually I could have went one step further and pushed, but I made mistakes early in the hand. I haven't talked to him yet today, but 99% sure I had him there.

I'm not use to cash play and 6$ is like 2- $3 rebuys for me;)

Thx for all your advice:)
 
jaymfc

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it is easy to say what we would do when it's your hand but not sure what my tight ass would do when it's mine .

I think I would have called thinking like feitr , aj qq kk . but drunk is like no read , he's not thinking his normal way (well it could be normal for rob :) )

but bottom line for me is you have to make a few bad folds when making mostly good ones , I wouldn't have lost any sleep over it right or wrong .
jmo :)
 
rob5775

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Looking at this today, I should have called this no matter what, actually I could have went one step further and pushed, but I made mistakes early in the hand. I haven't talked to him yet today, but 99% sure I had him there.

I'm not use to cash play and 6$ is like 2- $3 rebuys for me;)

Thx for all your advice:)

he's not thinking his normal way (well it could be normal for rob :) )


Alright, since when is me being drunk such a problem? Jay's right, my normal is still a little off-balance. Anyways, the way I have been playing lately - April should have read me for weak/tight. Here's the hand (Tenbob, Penguin and several others had me pegged):

POKERSTARS GAME #17671694111: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/05/25 - 01:14:00 (ET)
Table 'Hera V' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: rob5775 ($23.45 in chips)
Seat 2: cheapest ($12.90 in chips)
Seat 3: smokeyfatty ($8.10 in chips)
Seat 4: bagnus ($28.15 in chips)
Seat 5: SvgePenguin ($27.20 in chips)
Seat 6: 1bourbon1 ($18.65 in chips)
Seat 7: aloevera ($31.20 in chips)
Seat 8: PLF_DBA_MAN ($30.40 in chips)
Seat 9: vsw4545 ($23.90 in chips)
rob5775: posts small blind $0.10
cheapest: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to rob5775 [Jc Ad]
smokeyfatty: folds
bagnus: folds
SvgePenguin: folds
1bourbon1: folds
aloevera: raises $0.50 to $0.75
PLF_DBA_MAN: folds
vsw4545: folds
rob5775: calls $0.65
cheapest: folds
*** FLOP *** [Js 5s 6d]
rob5775: checks
aloevera: bets $0.75
rob5775: raises $1.25 to $2
aloevera: raises $2 to $4
rob5775: calls $2
*** TURN *** [Js 5s 6d] [9h]
PLF_DBA_MAN said, "me too"
rob5775: checks
aloevera: checks
*** RIVER *** [Js 5s 6d 9h] [5c]
rob5775 said, "lol"
PLF_DBA_MAN said, "i just won a pot"
rob5775: bets $6
PLF_DBA_MAN said, "im running"
aloevera said, "lol"
rob5775 said, "april...."
aloevera said, "I really hate folding AA"
aloevera: folds
Uncalled bet ($6) returned to rob5775
rob5775 collected $9.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.75 | Rake $0.45
Board [Js 5s 6d 9h 5c]
Seat 1: rob5775 (small blind) collected ($9.30)
Seat 2: cheapest (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: smokeyfatty folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: bagnus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: SvgePenguin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 1bourbon1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: aloevera folded on the River
Seat 8: PLF_DBA_MAN folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: vsw4545 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


Few notes:

Yes, I was drunk. But I play April often enough in tourneys to trust my reads on her (tight/aggressive PF... somewhat passive postflop). I knew, without a doubt, that she was very strong when she raised me on the flop. I checked the turn with every intention to check/fold. When April checked behind I realized (now this might have been the beer thinking for me) that she was reading too much into my hand and putting me on something much stronger than tp/tk, maybe a set of J's or 5's.

The only way to win the pot was to put in strong bet on the river and hope she gave me credit for a much stronger hand then I had. I bet 6 because I felt it looked more like a value bet then betting pot (which I was tempted to do). I was really kinda surprised she folded AA. Oh, and I really don't know why I typed in "April...". Maybe I was drunker then I thought.

Meh, now that I think about this hand the more I realize how piss poor I played it also. Sorry April.:(
 
aloevera

aloevera

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Ya, it could have been played differently by both, but I didn't know you were even trying to read ppl at this point.;) But your read was correct, and nice job getting me to fold those. I wasn't drinking last night perhaps I shoulda been:D
 
rob5775

rob5775

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but I didn't know you were even trying to read ppl at this point.;)

LOL!

Yeah, I figured after after 3 years of poker it was about time to pay attention to the other players and not just my hand.:D

And if you had been drinking you would have raised me on the river FTW.
 
F

feitr

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Yea that is kinda what i figured. There are a number of hands that could make that move that you beat, and you are only really behind to a set making this a pretty standard call.
 
A

AllOrNothing90

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AA is a hard hand to deal with, when quality raises head your way because all kinds of suits and straight possibilites are available, but I think you played it the right way.
 
zachvac

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Looking at this today, I should have called this no matter what, actually I could have went one step further and pushed, but I made mistakes early in the hand. I haven't talked to him yet today, but 99% sure I had him there.



Please don't push in this situation. He calls with hands that beat you and folds hands you beat.

As played you need to call this river. I agree with your turn check for pot control, although I really hate the flop 3-bet for such a small bet. I'd elect to call the flop check-raise, check the turn behind as you did, and then call this river bet (or value bet if he checks in front). You kept the pot small, if he has a set he didn't extract a ton. You have decent odds to call, you've shown weakness, and you just have to call this river bet. If he had shoved here I think you could have found a fold, but he only bet $6 here. I know I'm answering after the results were posted but this is just a really standard call, really surprised you folded this one.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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You made the hand hard to play on the river. Try to raise amounts (on flop here) that will make it easy for you to decide what to do later. Bet more on flop, 3bet more on flop, and the hand is easier played.
 
premierplayer

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Call, just as most everyone else has said.
 
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