Flopped Set in Semi-family raised pot [25nl 6max]

Emperor IX

Emperor IX

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pokerstars Game #16897473235: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/04/21 - 17:36:49 (ET)
Table 'Mekbuda II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Becici ($17.55 in chips)
Seat 2: Emperor XIX ($39.30 in chips)
Seat 3: mavrick13366 ($29.25 in chips)
Seat 4: Willempie_14 ($23.90 in chips)
Seat 5: DocOcc-x ($29.15 in chips)
Seat 6: allen6786 ($20.90 in chips)
Willempie_14: posts small blind $0.10
DocOcc-x: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Emperor XIX [7c 7h]
allen6786: raises $0.75 to $1
Becici: calls $1
Emperor XIX: calls $1
mavrick13366: calls $1
Willempie_14: folds
DocOcc-x: calls $0.75
*** FLOP *** [7d 3s Qd]
DocOcc-x: checks
allen6786: checks
Becici: bets $5
Emperor XIX: ?


Due to the high amount of people in the pot we can't just call (flush draw and all) so what kind of raise is best? Drop the hammer now 3x? Minraise?

(Again, semi-juvenile, but I'm still new to real cash, just want to make sure I've got the right idea)

And wtf does Becici have?
 
B

bw07507

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Becici looks like he really likes his hand here. With him betting so much on the flop here I would be putting him on AQ, AA, KK, QQ. If hes got QQ its a cooler and you're going to get stacked anyways. Id be inclined to smooth call this if it were just you and him in the pot, however with 2 others behind I think you have to raise this up. With villains stack here raise enough to put him all in.

Edit: Just saw that Becici is not the original raiser, making it less likeley he has AA, KK, or QQ. AQ, KQ, 33 all fit here.
 
Lo-Dog

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I 'm popping it to $15 to $20. Can't be giving anyone odds here.
 
Lo-Dog

Lo-Dog

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Becici looks like he really likes his hand here. With him betting so much on the flop here I would be putting him on AQ, AA, KK, QQ. If hes got QQ its a cooler and you're going to get stacked anyways. Id be inclined to smooth call this if it were just you and him in the pot, however with 2 others behind I think you have to raise this up. With villains stack here raise enough to put him all in.

Edit: Just saw that Becici is not the original raiser, making it less likeley he has AA, KK, or QQ. AQ, KQ, 33 all fit here.

If he has QQ here he is a super donk, just mark him down in the buddy list.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I would just smooth call, and here's why:

If we flat call, we're giving any other villain 3:1 pot odds to draw to the flush, which is a 4:1 draw. So he's still making a mistake if he calls the original pot sized bet. Plus, we have no reason to build the pot, since we're getting Becici's stack anyways on the turn (since he's so short). I'm gonna argue against conventional wisdom and say flat call this bet. We likely won't get anyone tagging along, but its worth a stab.

Then just put the whole table all in on a non-diamond turn :). Also, we're not afraid of Becici chickening out on us if a scare card comes are we? He's already so committed I don't think he can get away from this hand if the Ad/Kd hits on the turn.
 
Last edited:
widowmaker89

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I probably just call as well. I would usually build the pot here but if someone will do that for you more power to them.

As mentioed before they still arent getting the correct odds on a draw. A draw has 8 outs on you so we are looking at 8/45 or a little less than 5:1 to hit on the turn, if they dont you can make them pay again then.

I can see the arguement of raising here though, mostly based on getting becici all in. I dont agree he is pot committed here. If he is trying to take it down with a KQ or QJ he probably wont put his $12 into the pot if a flush does come. He also may fold to a raise right now. If you call it looks like a draw and he may do the work for you if a non diamond hits.
 
tenbob

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I just raise here. Against a single opponent we can almost always discount the flush draw posibilities, the more opponents we are up against though the bigger that possibility becomes. Lots of times we also get AQ to stack off light here, because sometimes the donks feel almost pot committed.

I raise for value out of afformentioned hands, and call any subsequent action.
 
Jillychemung

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Becici pot bet says AQ, KQ, QJ and trying to price out FD. I would expect at least one of the others to have the FD. I would rather make their price to play worse than the 3:1 I would be giving them with a flat call. Based on what I feel my image currently is I'd bet $11 (tight image) or $15 (loose image).
 
widowmaker89

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They are getting close to 5:1 to hit the flush on the turn. You want them to make a mistake and call even at 3:1. Yes if you think they will call a raise on FD by all means, but it would be a very loose play to call a reraise on a flush draw with the original raiser to act behind you. That said there are plently of people who arent exactly sharks out there so you never know.

I would try, probably unsuccessfully, to get someone else to the turn and being in position gives you a great advantage to getting all of becici's chips if he has a KQ AQ JQ kind of hand.
 
Jillychemung

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OK we flat call $5 and maverick also calls $5. What do we do on a Xd turn that isn't the 3d and
1) Becici shoves
2) Becici checks
 
widowmaker89

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This is obviously a worse case scenerio if the only guy after us calling and a diamond hits. If he pushes we almost have to fold dont we? I know this is very weak but with a guy calling after uson the flop. If there is nobody after us I would call the all in. If he check I would say check as well, we got caught and re-evaluate if maverick bets.

Yes taking down the $15 pot would be pretty nice if we raised, and we might even get an all in with a KQ JQ, which I would say is no certainty, but if a non diamond hits, we do probablyu get the KQ JQ all in and the extra $5. In the long run I think its a EV+.
 
Jillychemung

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Yeah I did choose the worst case but that is where the tougher decisions lie. If we call $5 and everyone else folds, I'm calling Becic turn AI no matter what card comes. If either of the 2 players to act before Becici calls the $5 and a Xd hits the turn then I have easy decisions based on what they do.
 
widowmaker89

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Lets deal with only the flush draw limper here. I will look at 2 situations regarding Becici.

Becici folds to either a reraise or if a diamond hits.
A non 3 diamond hits 17.78% and we lose the 15 we would have won.
3d hits 2.22% and we win $28 additional
Anything else hits 80% and we win $5 additional.
This works out to EV +1.95.

Also not included is if instead of maverick on the flush draw its instead some we have position on and they hit their flush and check into the action. here we have 20.5% of hitting(assuming just 9 outs since Becici probably has a Q). This means that if they do this our EV is now 3.48. If there is a 50% chance of them checking their flush(probably more reasonable) then the EV is +2.72.

2. Those of you who say Becici is pot committed and pretty much all in(which I dont agree neccessarily agree with). then our losses from the flush hitting are 27.

Everything is the same here except we lose $27 when the flush hits. This comes out to EV -.28. Giving a 50% chance of seeing a free card that changes to EV +.82. If there is even a 10% chance EV is still positive.

I add I think Becici is more likely all in if we limp and either get a caller or dont and no diamond hits than if we raise here.

I ran through these numbers quickly and while I think they are are right they may be incorrect.
 
Emperor IX

Emperor IX

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Well this hand was able to get a little bit of discussion, so not terrible. but I raised it up to $15 and it folded around to bettor, who tanked, then folded :(
 
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