bean, i think these situations that you're posting are a little different. the most recent example, the board is a nonpaired board, possible draw, no chance for a flush or flush draw, also, the board hit your range. in the hand i posted, the board did not hit villains range at all and it was a paired board.
think about it this way, would you play back at a donk bet with complete air, or would you only play back if you atleast had some equity?
The opponent is OOP.
He donked.
He has nothing/weak (just like your hand).
Villain is trying to get me to fold, much like you did to your opponent.
As a result, he fires 2nd bullet OTT, because he doesn't know for sure what I have, he's still trying to get me to fold, and he's trying to suck out.
Those are similarities.
And a paired board makes it even more likely that you don't have anything, or that you didn't connect in any way. Thus, people will float you a bunch, and it will be largely unsuccessful. There will be terrible turn cards for you. You will not know what V has. And, you probably will fire 2nd barrel on most turns, if V floats you. Lighting money on fire most of the time.
I find that most opponents will continue on turn and river, after donking the flop, if we just flat call them. They just can't resist once they start, and we just call.
Yes I will play back at them with nothing, depending on stack size though. In this case, yes its lucky I had something. However, I hardly ever fold to a donk bet. In your case, I would just float you with ATC, or just raise you OTF, because I know you don't have anything either.
Edit: I get away with murder because I have the nittiest image ever. I use it to my advantage, because I miss flops a bunch.
Point being, there are alot of like minded individuals out there, who share your interest in leading into the PFR, when OOP. I suppose I could find you some HH with paired boards, or I will post the next one I encounter.
I don't know how long people have been donk betting, but it doesn't work. People do this crap all the time, its sweeping the nation here. Once in a great while, they win a pot. But - more often than not - they just get punished. They have no idea where they are in the hand. So if we float a donk bet, they will often continue turn and river, because they can't help themselves. They think if they just keep blasting away, they will get you to fold.
I will admit, I see people doing this all the time amongst themselves, while I am folding because that's what nits do. It does seem to work when one fish does it to another fish. Perhaps the one fish is exploiting the other fishier dude, and he is king fish in that instant. So I can see it working against bad opponents.
You have to understand, my opinions about donk betting are all based from my perspective. It doesn't work on me, so therefore, I think it is a terrible strategy. I have a decent network of poker friends, and every one of them feels the same way I do. People that donk bet rarely have anything good. Good players will do it for value, but we recognize good players based on lines, hand selection, and all sorts of stuff we see at the table. You can spot a good player pretty quick. You can spot a fish faster.
But if you find an opponent that will fold way too much, and can reliably exploit them, have at it.
People do this stuff often. I think it's safe to say, 90%+ they are weak, and can't stand much heat. They mostly do it with draws, and janky stuff like bottom pair, gutters, PPs with 3 over cards, etc. However, there are some opponents that do it when they're strong. These players are usually easy to identify by sitting with them for a while.
Some people do it habitually, and they will fold to a raise every time. I labeled a guy "the serial donker" in my notes one day. He is still doing it, all the time. I just raise him, and he has never called me yet. He donks, then folds. So I exploit it.
