Badly played, how to improve?

Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
I've got a bad feeling I played this hand like a dog on all rounds, but would welcome suggestions as to what I should have done to play it better. Ignore the results and focus on what I should have done when playing the hand.

I don't have a read on my opponents because I was pretty new to the table.

Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.25 NL (real money), hand #880,675,420
Table Linkoeping, 21 Aug 2006 12:30 AM

Seat 1: MrBroug13 ($24.35 in chips)
Seat 3: Bombjack_x [:6h4:,:qs4:] ($29.85 in chips)
Seat 4: Ullbebroke ($8.50 in chips)
Seat 5: hellroy ($15.90 in chips)
Seat 6: ImpaleR123 ($68.20 in chips)
Seat 7: scottflmtg ($33.80 in chips)
Seat 8: RanchRanch ($4.20 in chips)
Seat 9: catch16 ($68.20 in chips)
Seat 10: mendelevium ($34.60 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
Bombjack_x posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
Ullbebroke folds,
hellroy calls $0.25,
ImpaleR123 calls $0.25,
scottflmtg bets $0.50,
RanchRanch folds,
catch16 folds,
mendelevium calls $0.50,
MrBroug13 calls $0.50,
Bombjack_x calls $0.25,
hellroy calls $0.25,
ImpaleR123 calls $0.25.

I'm in big blind and there's $2 in the pot, it's 25c to call = any-2-cards call

FLOP [board cards :qc4:,:qd4:,:3h4: ]
Bombjack_x checks,
hellroy bets $2,
ImpaleR123 folds,
scottflmtg folds,
mendelevium calls $2,
MrBroug13 folds,
Bombjack_x calls $2.

Pretty sure someone's else has got a queen and am likely outkicked - so could/should you lay down here? Or raise to make sure?

TURN [board cards QC,QD,3H,:4h4: ]
Bombjack_x checks,
hellroy bets $7,
mendelevium calls $7,
Bombjack_x calls $7.

Should almost certainly lay down now?

RIVER [board cards QC,QD,3H,4H,:6s4: ]
Bombjack_x bets $10,
hellroy calls $6.40 and is all-in,
mendelevium calls $10.

I now have the nuts but I don't think I should have bet. hellroy clearly has been leading out - should have check-raised? Or just move all-in straight away?

SHOWDOWN
Bombjack_x shows [ :6h4:,:qs4: ]
hellroy mucks cards [ :3c4:,:3d4: ]
mendelevium shows [ :qh4:,:10h4: ]
Bombjack_x wins $7.20, Bombjack_x wins $48.70.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
You should have raised on the flop and turn so you would have a better idea of where the other players stand. I would have pushed all in after the river. Why are you checking on the river? Bet something for value or go all in.
You were dead in the water until the river. Not only did one player have you outkicked, he also had a flush draw. Consider yourself lucky.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
I did bet for value on the river, but I was wondering if there's a better way to play it to get the most value. If I check on the river, I'm fairly certain hellroy, who has been leading the betting is going to go all-in for his final $6.40, so when the next player calls, I could then either raise or go all-in, the thinking being it's less for him to call this than if I push straight away, and I'd get more than the $10 value bet I actually made. I'm thinking he doesn't have a particularly strong hand because he has just been callng the bets so far, rather than raising.

It's easy to see that I was beaten on the flop and turn / he had a flush draw etc once we've seen the showdown, but that's being results-oriented. As it happened I hit an out to the nuts on the river, but I could only suspect and not be sure I was beaten on the earlier streets. So we need to consider the best moves given the information available at the time.

I think if I were a bit more disciplined I'd have laid it down on the flop after a bettor and a caller. I could have raised - to how much? Would this have got the best value if I did have the best hand? What do I do on the turn if I'm just called? Or could I have saved a few $ by just calling like I did, and check-folding the turn?
 
Beriac

Beriac

Guest
I actually like the check here, if another player has been that aggressive and there are 2 players to act after you. I think that would have been an interesting move.

The objective is to maximize chips in the pot here, and all-in or even a small bet won't necessarily do that.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Was just thinking, a really good move on the river could be to bet about $2, which would look like a weak block-bet. hellroy would probably raise all-in to $6.40, and the next guy would probably just call (although if he's a smart player and thinks from my weak bet he has me beat, might raise). After a call, I then still have the chance raise all-in (thinking a long time before doing so, naturally), and then it looks more like a steal attempt than a normal check-raise.
 
adam57

adam57

Guest
Only thing wrong is maybe a raise post flop, but once you hit your full house on the river you would have the nuts I would have bet more hoping someone else had the queen like he did with a better kicker. I think you could have made some more money there. Nice pot for those stakes
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Ignore the results and focus on what I should have done when playing the hand.

(Kinda tough to give a true blue, non-results-oriented answer when you give the results. Anyone can give an opinion when they know how it turned out.)

What's your read on "hellroy" & "impaler"? To call a min-raise with crap (Q6o) and the chance of 2 to raise behind you seems kinda foolish. As DM would say standardly, "Fold pre-flop."

To not bet the flop for info with top trips, low kicker seems kinda foolish.

To not bet the turn "ditto".....

Luck on the river saved you from posting a bad result here. The QT woulda killed you 'til now.

You should feel very lucky here.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
To call a min-raise with crap (Q6o) and the chance of 2 to raise behind you seems kinda foolish.

The 2 behind him just called to begin with. The chance that either is planning on limp-reraising is really quite low. It's a pretty standard call, in my mind. A lot in the pot and fine odds to get a look at a flop.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
The 2 behind him just called to begin with. The chance that either is planning on limp-reraising is really quite low. It's a pretty standard call, in my mind. A lot in the pot and fine odds to get a look at a flop.
Fine. Pick one sentence. The rest of the play is still poor, especially facing a huge raise on the turn. (more sentences to pick on.)
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Raise the flop, given that you checked first. Bet-call-checkraise will give anyone with a huge hand a license to really stab at the pot, considering it looks like there are two players involved who seemingly aren't going anywhere. You can then act as appropriate.

River bet is fine - there's been action on a relatively drawless board, so the others like their hands and are unlikely to go away (and more likely to interpret your bet as a steal considering the 6s isn't really a scare card).
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
One thing I noticed you didn't do was define your hand anywhere but the river. You mentioned that you were concerned about maybe being outkicked; you have to raise in that situation to find out where you're at.
Any other time this hand comes up (or at least most other times), you're either going broke, or losing a whole lot of money if you're just check-calling down. You (obviously) got lucky with the river, and next time a situation like this arises with the strength of your hand vs your opponents hands being uncertain, you definitely need to define your hand. Raising the flop is going to be much cheaper than calling down only to find you're beat simply by OPs kicker.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
What exactly is meant by "defining your hand"? Does it mean basically letting your opponents know that you have something and then hoping that influences their betting patterns?
 
S

scifell

Guest
On the flop, if you truely thought there was a good chance you were beat you should have had the dicipline to fold- either that or raise to put your doubts to rest. I think calling here would only be a reasonable move if you thought you were way ahead of everyone and thought they would continue betting with moderate strength hands.
 
RiverNoHelp

RiverNoHelp

Rock Star
What exactly is meant by "defining your hand"? Does it mean basically letting your opponents know that you have something and then hoping that influences their betting patterns?


By raising you are essentially fishing for information..You want to find out if your kicker is good in this hand so you have to bet..If someone plays back at you they you have some idea of where you stand in the hand..It would be your decision how to interpret a call or re-raise..Like I said if they play back at you then that tells you that they probably have a hand while at the same time you are telling them "hey over here, I've got a hand too"..
 
Top