Bad Fold? or...

Stick66

Stick66

Legend
As I've commented before, I have a bigger problem handling bad laydowns than bad beats. My idea is that I can control what I fold but not the miracle cards that come for a bad beat.

On this one, I am not sure if it is a bad laydown or a proper one considering the middling pot size & the board paired. Not fond of playing Ace-Junk, but they were suited so I limped from mid position. The JJ on board scared me and my kicker was bad. Table Background: Semi-loose. The winner has been mostly flopping & folding, so I have not much of a read on her. OPINIONS?

full tilt poker Game #374848146: Table Shady Creek - $1/$2 - Limit Hold'em - 19:54:44 ET - 2006/01/08
Seat 1: EvilMD ($57.75)
Seat 2: MrSticker ($15)
Seat 3: _Xceptional ($507.50)
Seat 4: Flopalopagus ($28.25)
Seat 5: feek ($14.25)
Seat 6: LadyLabia ($30)
Seat 7: jeb2 ($43.25)
Seat 8: malalela ($61)
Seat 9: Bonita Tee ($17.25)

LadyLabia posts the small blind of $0.50
jeb2 posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #5

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker [2d Ad]
_Xceptional: 500
malalela calls $1
Bonita Tee folds
EvilMD folds
MrSticker calls $1
_Xceptional folds
EvilMD: lol
Flopalopagus folds
feek folds
LadyLabia calls $0.50
jeb2 checks

*** FLOP *** [Ah Js Jh]
LadyLabia checks
jeb2 checks
malalela bets $1
MrSticker calls $1
LadyLabia folds
jeb2 calls $1

*** TURN *** [Ah Js Jh] [6d]
jeb2 checks
malalela bets $2
MrSticker folds
jeb2 calls $2

*** RIVER *** [Ah Js Jh 6d] [9c]
jeb2 checks
malalela checks

*** SHOW DOWN ***
malalela shows [7s 7h] (two pair, Jacks and Sevens)
jeb2 mucks
malalela wins the pot ($10.50) with two pair, Jacks and Sevens

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $11 | Rake $0.50
Board: [Ah Js Jh 6d 9c]
Seat 1: EvilMD didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: MrSticker folded on the Turn
Seat 3: _Xceptional didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Flopalopagus didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: feek (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: LadyLabia (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: jeb2 (big blind) mucked [Th Qc] - a pair of Jacks
Seat 8: malalela showed [7s 7h] and won ($10.50) with two pair, Jacks and Sevens
Seat 9: Bonita Tee didn't bet (folded)
 
Tammy

Tammy

Moderator
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I think you should have tried raising after the flop, so then you could see where you stood in the hand. If she re-raises, you might have a problem; if she just calls, you can probably safely assume she does not hold the Jack. I think maybe you didn't play this one just right, and you over read the hand. You let those J's scare you off.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
As juicee says, raise post-flop (and pre-flop for that matter). Otherwise you're just calling to the end against a probable higher kicker or 3 of a kind. I don't think at low level someone with 3 j's would have bet - they would have slow played, so a raise (even with nothing) could have taken it down then.

I've been putting down more recently, and it is gutting when 2 people turn over rubbish, but we both know what happens when you do call!

I'm just curious to know what jeb2 had!
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Here's what I don't like about the hand:

What card were you hoping for on the turn that made you call the flop?

I mean, you call the flop bet, which means that you either think you have the best hand, or you think you can improve to the best hand. But then you fold when a blank hits?

With position, like you had, I would have raised the turn. This would have had one of three effects:

1. If you're up against another ace, they would have called, and checked to you on the river. Here you can either bet again (maybe A8 would even fold!) or check it down. Important: This would cost you as many bets as just calling down would.
2. Anyone with a jack will reraise you, and you can safely fold. The cost is still as many bets as calling down.
3. You charge someone with a worse hand than yours money for their draw.

So, either raise on the turn (or on the flop!), or call down, or fold on the flop - but don't call flop, fold turn. That just doesn't make any sense.

Interesting hand, though. :)
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
I hate the way you played every single street here. :)

- Fold > Raise > Call preflop. A2 is a big danger hand to be playing if you don't hit 2 pair or better. Limping it in late position with a couple of limpers before you is fine, but in MP it's a pretty standard fold.

- Raise the flop, for two reasons. First, for information about the bettor's hand, and second to try and push the Sb and BB away from (or make them pay over the odds for) any draw they might have.

- If you've called the flop, you HAVE TO CALL THE TURN HERE. The 6d isn't a scare card, it is unlikely to have helped your opponent. If you're going to fold if bet into unless you hit trips on the turn, you may as well just fold on the flop, as FP has said.

Essentially, you raise on the flop, he will most likely flat call, then you can control the betting afterwards as you can be pretty sure you're ahead and it's unlikely he'll bet into you on the turn or river.
 
Stick66

Stick66

Legend
Wow! I guess the consensus is that I should be raising into danger on the flop for info. Makes sense on the flop as it was still the small $1 bets.

The reason I folded on the turn was that it was then the larger $2 bet to call into a $9 pot and I thought my A2 had less than a 20% (1 in 5) of winning. I guess a flop raise would have improved my odds, also.

robwhufc said:
I'm just curious to know what jeb2 had!

"Seat 7: jeb2 (big blind) mucked [Th Qc] - a pair of Jacks" (missed straight draw)

I usually hate to fold after raising, but I guess I'll have to incorporate this into my game now. THANKS TO ALL WHO RESPONDED!
 
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