AK reraised preflop by medium stack, what to do

Tygran

Tygran

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This is literally the villains first hand at the table, no stats on him. He posted his blind out of turn.

Curious to see what majority say to do here...I'm sorta thinking we really only have one good option though (not saying what!).

pokerstars Game #15361707492: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/02/17 - 21:47:53 (ET)
Table 'Arneb V' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: wellco ($24.60 in chips)
Seat 2: chief-nj ($7.45 in chips)
Seat 4: Tokuan ($25.90 in chips)
Seat 5: Tygran37 ($29.55 in chips)
Seat 6: saxonrule68 ($24.50 in chips)
Seat 7: Pioneer2001 ($15 in chips)
Seat 8: dennisa ($27.05 in chips)
Seat 9: SNCHatch271 ($53.35 in chips)
SNCHatch271: posts small blind $0.10
wellco: posts big blind $0.25
yjqian23: sits out
Pioneer2001: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Tygran37 [Ad Kh]
chief-nj: calls $0.25
Tokuan: folds
Tygran37: raises $1.25 to $1.50
saxonrule68: folds
Pioneer2001: raises $1.75 to $3.25
dennisa: folds
SNCHatch271: folds
wellco: folds
chief-nj: folds
Tygran37:???
 
pantin007

pantin007

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small reraise, he is short stack, u could push here
i think seeing that this is his first hand, his range is obviously huge, could easily have AQ or JJ
if u just call u give him controll of the hand, u can raise but ur basically ending up in the same situation as if u push right here and now and ur definately not folding this

i elect to push
 
daxter70

daxter70

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small reraise, he is short stack, u could push here
i think seeing that this is his first hand, his range is obviously huge, could easily have AQ or JJ
if u just call u give him controll of the hand, u can raise but ur basically ending up in the same situation as if u push right here and now and ur definately not folding this

i elect to push

and overplay the biggest donkey hand out there....typical:cool:
 
H

Henreiman

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Like daxter said, A/K can be a troublesome hand...if they have even pocket 7s, you're left with 6 basic outs, and then of course you could get lucky and hit J/Q/10. Because you have no stats, you have to assume they're not a donk. They might have AQ, but I'd probably fold. Now, it gets interesting though, because since they are a short stack, it's possible they came in big and lost a lot of it via donk. But once again, like I said, probably fold
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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But once again, like I said, probably fold
This is ridiculous. Even if we know he has KK, we have odds to call, as we're getting roughly 3:1.

3-bet small raises can definitely mean "please call, because I want your monies". I think this would be a good spot to tread lightly. If I had better reads, I'd definitely stick him in, since we're OOP. But until I knew he had a light 3-betting range, I'd give him some credit for a big hand.

/me calls, planning to bet only flops we hit.
 
C

Czech Razor

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Like C9 said, call the donk min-raise and shut down if you whiff the flop.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Villain posted in MP so the chances of him being bad are pretty high. I probably shove and expect either AQ/AJ type hands to call (as well as mid/high pairs and AK of course), or villain to give up his silly 'protect my out of turn posted blind' bluff.
 
J

Jevren

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depends on how much u have in account in my opinion, if i had another $20 in my acc i would call stay there so then i no wat to look out for
 
Tygran

Tygran

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depends on how much u have in account in my opinion, if i had another $20 in my acc i would call stay there so then i no wat to look out for


If you are playing hands based on how much money you have in your account you are doing something very seriously wrong.

Sounds like you need to drop down 3 or 4 limits if that's the case, this should never enter into the equation of consideration.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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This is a pretty standard shove for me considering his stack size.

AK vs an unknown 25nl shortstacker is pretty much smooshing his range.
and overplay the biggest donkey hand out there....typical:cool:

Oh, go crawl in a hole and die. Can someone ban this chump already?
 
zachvac

zachvac

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and overplay the biggest donkey hand out there....typical:cool:

How would you play this? I really don't like a call here, because if you call and hit an A or K you've got to assume you're getting your stack in with that kind of action preflop, and at that point if you were beat preflop you are still beat or they know they're beat and fold. There are 4 possibilities:

1. AA - we're ****ed no matter what. Obviously if we knew he had this we'd fold, but we're not folding here so a call or push we're practically drawing dead. In this particular situation a call would be better because we assume we get stacked if an A or K hits and we get away from it if we flop nothing.

2. KK - we're drawing to an A, if we flat call and hit it, villain's not putting his stack in. If we flat call and miss, he wins the pot. If we hit our K, he stacks us. If we push, we win his stack with an A, not happening if we flat call. A K and he still stacks us obviously, anything else and he wins just our preflop betting.

3. lower pocket pair - if an A or K hits and villain doesn't set, he's not putting his stack in, so we can extract nothing from this if we hit. If we push preflop first off we get fold equity, not many 99- are calling and TT and JJ and once in a while QQ may fold. And even when they do call, we're still just barely under 50% to win. So including fold equity, we win when they have a smaller pocket pair. If we don't hit our A or K (meaning it's highly likely they have an over pair, possibly with one over, a Q or something), we're not winning the hand and if we hit they're not paying us off a lot. So we lose on this since statistically we miss more than we hit.

4. Total bluff - not likely, but shove forces the bluff to fold while postflop they could easily fire another bullet if we flat call or else actually hit something like 2 pair. Obviously the shove is better here

If we think he has AA or KK the majority of the time here, it's a clear fold, but call > shove. If we don't (which is probably the case, but against an extremely tight player maybe he does have AA or KK the majority of the time), than shove > call. The fold equity we get from the coin flips that may fold preflop outweigh the times when they just might have AA or KK, and the total bluffs simply fold to our shove.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Villain posted in MP so the chances of him being bad are pretty high. I probably shove and expect either AQ/AJ type hands to call (as well as mid/high pairs and AK of course), or villain to give up his silly 'protect my out of turn posted blind' bluff.
This is a pretty good observation. Since its 25NL & we've got this info, plus he's buying in short, I think we can shove on him. I still don't think its as clear a shove as you guys make it out to be, but that may just be because I'm not a big fan of shoving AK.

/me changes his answer now that he reads the full HH. Shove.
 
Tygran

Tygran

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Yeah a few of you picked up on some things that to me are fairly telling.

1) he bought in less than max amount...few regs do this and more often I find people who buy in for mid/small stacks are not very often among the best of players.

2) He posted out of turn. Everyone probably does it occasionally but again I rarely find the best players doing this very often.

3) He's reraising his very first hand at the table (with a posted blind). I find people doing this their first hand at the table at these limits are FAR more often doing it with not so great hands and trying to take advantage of tighter players willingness to fold a hand or two till they know better.

** None of the above are absolute truths..just what I find to be fairly common tendencies. Plenty of exceptions exist, but they are still exceptions.

*** Also doesn't mean he can't be a bad player who caught a good hand.

Even if he has a decent hand like JJ or AQ and calls i'm no worse than a coin flip. I really don't think we see KK/AA in this spot extremely often. He could also fold with one of these hands (or worse) to a shove which isn't a bad outcome.

Anyway..with his middling stack and the weight of the above evidence I shoved it right then and there. He called, flipped QK and my hand held.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Well played and well reasoned.
 
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