AK

Bombjack

Bombjack

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Villain 31/18/4

Seat 3: Essellte ($32.00 in chips)
Seat 6: goldgrave ($50.00 in chips)
Seat 7: Bombjack_x [ :ks4:,:as4: ] ($48.65 in chips)
Seat 8: madridist ($54.80 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Essellte posts blind ($0.25), goldgrave posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
Bombjack_x bets $2, madridist calls $2, Essellte folds, goldgrave folds.

FLOP [board cards :4c4:,:9c4:,:ad4: ]
Bombjack_x bets $3, madridist bets $9, Bombjack_x... :confused:
 
t1riel

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Reraise! I would make a bigger raise here, like $18 more.
 
mrsnake3695

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He either has another ace inwhich case you hope it's not ace-9 or he has 2 clubs. Reraise big.
 
Vintage82

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But if Villain then calls, isn't Bombjack pot committed? I don't mean to sound passive, but to then get locked in a hand with only TPTK when you could be potentially behind to trips or 2 pair?

Has Villain showndown any hands that he'd call preflop with? Has he been seen raising a flop bet.

I've a feeling that despite the K kicker, your outs have been reduced by the Villain's potential A9 or Ax clubs. On the other hand, he could be holding AQ & AJ and see your flop bet as a standard c-bet & try to push you off....
 
Schatzdog

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I agree with Mr Snake here. Re-raise him. Just a question, what is your table image at this point? Are people folding to your bets? If they are then his re-raise could mean something stronger.
 
Bombjack

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My stats for this session (4/5 handed) are something like 35/19/2.8, so pretty average really, fairly aggressive pre-flop but not overly loose.

I actually poooooshed - re-popping it takes the betting to $32 - i.e. a pot of about $68 with about $17 left behind... what do you think to this?
 
zebranky

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My stats for this session (4/5 handed) are something like 35/19/2.8, so pretty average really, fairly aggressive pre-flop but not overly loose.

I actually poooooshed - re-popping it takes the betting to $32 - i.e. a pot of about $68 with about $17 left behind... what do you think to this?

If you're gonna raise, its gotta be a push. Even a min-raise (18) is going to put at least 40 in the pot, and you with less chips than that. So yeah, pushing is better than any other raise at this point.

Me, I think I'd call and check the flop here. I want to see if my opponent has a good Aand thinks I was C-betting (ie, he'll bet for value, not looking for a fold), or if he's scared because he has only a weak A (usually an all-in or overbet). and fold/push where appropriate.
 
stormswa

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Villain 31/18/4

Seat 3: Essellte ($32.00 in chips)
Seat 6: goldgrave ($50.00 in chips)
Seat 7: Bombjack_x [ :ks4:,:as4: ] ($48.65 in chips)
Seat 8: madridist ($54.80 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Essellte posts blind ($0.25), goldgrave posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
Bombjack_x bets $2, madridist calls $2, Essellte folds, goldgrave folds.

FLOP [board cards :4c4:,:9c4:,:ad4: ]
Bombjack_x bets $3, madridist bets $9, Bombjack_x... :confused:


had to quote it so I could remember all bet amounts.

preflop you have to bet more then 3x with AK, you are letting people in cheap with a good hand but still a drawing hand.

on flop you again have to bet bigger.

I would call here, if you raise you basicly commit yourself to the pot and you really dont want that. If a club falls on the turn then I'm happy check/folding here if any safe card comes out im pushing 1/2 the pot here which would be roughly $15, if he pushes then I will fold but im guessing he will either fold or call.

on river if its still a safe card im pushing again but if it is a scare card then im checking and evaluating my odds if he bets but im guessing he has either clubs or Ace with weak kicker maybe AJ or AQ.
 
Bombjack

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Me, I think I'd call and check the flop here. I want to see if my opponent has a good Aand thinks I was C-betting (ie, he'll bet for value, not looking for a fold), or if he's scared because he has only a weak A (usually an all-in or overbet). and fold/push where appropriate.
So you call the flop then check-push the turn if he bets? Under what circumstances do you fold?

preflop you have to bet more then 3x with AK, you are letting people in cheap with a good hand but still a drawing hand.

on flop you again have to bet bigger.
Raising to 4xBB is pretty standard at any level. Builds the pot, helps define your opponents' hands. Raise more and only hands that beat me are calling.

Bet more than 3/4 pot on the flop - why? I'm not giving draws the odds to chase, and he's on a club flush draw only about one time in 20 anyway - for which I want him to call for the wrong odds anyway. Obviously behind to a set or A9, but ahead of anything else, so I want these to call.
 
blankoblanco

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preflop you have to bet more then 3x with AK, you are letting people in cheap with a good hand but still a drawing hand.

on flop you again have to bet bigger.

I think his bets are completely fine/standard
 
zebranky

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So you call the flop then check-push the turn if he bets? Under what circumstances do you fold?

This is one of my big problems in online poker. At a live game, I'm only folding on a few specific conditions - and most of them are physical reads on my opponent.

Obviously, if a club comes out and he pushes, I'm 90% going to fold.
If an A or K comes out (not a club), I'm willing to go broke on a turn check-push, or a river bet.
for the 35 or so other possible turn cards its a little more dicey. I would tend to assume the "counter-intuitive" opponent - betting small on big hands, big on small hands. If he pushes or bets the pot after my check, I'm calling or pushing on the turn. If he bets 1/4-1/2 the pot, I'm probably going to fold. If he checks, I'm betting the pot on the river.
the caveat, as usual, is I'm not a great online player - I know the betting patterns people display are often different - but I get paid off on this sort of tactic about 75% of the time at a live table.
 
stormswa

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Bet more than 3/4 pot on the flop - why? I'm not giving draws the odds to chase, and he's on a club flush draw only about one time in 20 anyway - for which I want him to call for the wrong odds anyway. Obviously behind to a set or A9, but ahead of anything else, so I want these to call.

Its a good point, I really didnt take time to really look at bet amounts. I still think this is a standard call time here. I dont see a logical reason to re-raise here because if you do then you pretty much are commiting yourself to the hand regardless of what the turn brings. There are alot of scare cards that could come on the turn.

I play AK a little more aggresive then most which is why I said raise more. At 1/2 NL and 2/5 NL the raise amounts are 5x with AK so was comparing it to that but if like you said 3x is normal for that game then im ok with that.

I agree though that you want the draws to chase.
 
Bombjack

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Its a good point, I really didnt take time to really look at bet amounts. I still think this is a standard call time here. I dont see a logical reason to re-raise here because if you do then you pretty much are commiting yourself to the hand regardless of what the turn brings. There are alot of scare cards that could come on the turn.

I play AK a little more aggresive then most which is why I said raise more. At 1/2 NL and 2/5 NL the raise amounts are 5x with AK so was comparing it to that but if like you said 3x is normal for that game then im ok with that.

I agree though that you want the draws to chase.
I'm just interested to know what your logic is for raising more with AK than with other hands e.g. big pairs? Wouldn't it make more sense to raise more with a big pair since with those hands you're hoping to win the hand early on, i.e. on the flop or turn, whereas drawing hands are more likely to be made by the river, and generally you prefer to see all the cards on the board cheaply.
 
mrsnake3695

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With that board you are ahead more often than behind, in those circumstances you should get all your chips in if you can. The chances are better he has AQ or AJ than A9.
 
Schatzdog

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I'm not too sure of the push, but I can't really advocate what I think you should do either. PF play is fine, and the flop bet is good too, just the right size to make draws -ev.

I wouldn't put him on two clubs because I think he'd call your first bet if he was drawing, not re-raise you. This opinion is pretty session specific. Is he aggressive enough to raise on the draw?

I know I said re-raise initially but I think maybe a call is in order. That way you get to see another card without getting completely committed. I'm not sure how you feel about going bust with TPTK but I remember telling myself it isn't strong enough to justify that. So maybe a call and then, depending on what falls, another 3/4 pot bet.

For villain AQ, A9 and 99 make sense.
 
stormswa

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easy

I'm just interested to know what your logic is for raising more with AK than with other hands e.g. big pairs? Wouldn't it make more sense to raise more with a big pair since with those hands you're hoping to win the hand early on, i.e. on the flop or turn, whereas drawing hands are more likely to be made by the river, and generally you prefer to see all the cards on the board cheaply.


I dont think I said id raise more then AK then with big pairs? AK by the way is not a hand that I concider to make by the river, its a great hand but its not a made hand. By raising more preflop with it, it is easier to define what my opponents will call with. It would be easier for me to put them on something like QQ if the flop is AKQ.

getting to the river cheaply should never be your goal preflop, getting to river cheaply would be like you having KK with a ace on board, that hand I would like to showdown cheaply. The higher up you go in levels the more aggresive the play is, thats just a fact.

Aggresion is very very important in poker and the more aggresive players are usually the players that win the most in the long run while the calling station are usually the big time losers.

I would call here because I think you are ahead but I dont expect him to call your all in unless you are beat. So in long run I dont think pushing here is going to win you money. If you call that should totally slowdown the villian and you can take back control of the hand.
 
dbitel

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either call and check raise all in on the turn

or just shove flop
 
stormswa

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just wondering

either call and check raise all in on the turn

or just shove flop


do you think calling and then check/raising the turn is a more profitable play then pushing all in on flop?
 
dbitel

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storm,

makes little difference to be honest...but its good to have both moves in your arsenal

bombjack,

you need to tighten up preflop a lot
 
mrsnake3695

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I'm not sure I got the last post. Tighten up preflop???. Are you saying he shouldn't be playing ace-king suited? Or raising with ace-king suited? You must be refering to something else not in this thread.
 
dbitel

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I mean 35/19 is too loose preflop unless you are sooooper sooooper good postlfop (and even then, you want to be raising more and calling less)
 
stormswa

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huh

I mean 35/19 is too loose preflop unless you are sooooper sooooper good postlfop (and even then, you want to be raising more and calling less)


I dont remember him saying what his stats were, just what villians was?
 
mrsnake3695

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I didn't see (and still don't) where it said he was 35/19, I only saw villans stats of 31/18.
 
mrsnake3695

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Ok, kinda skipped over it I guess. In a full table that might be too much but in a 4/5 handed ring no limit game I don't think it is. With less players you have to loosen up or the blinds will eat you up. plus in ring cash no-limit games I think you do need to play a little looser pre-flop than limit or a tourney. So, I don't see it being too loose for this specific situation.
 
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