AA w/rag board VS very aggro bettor

Stick66

Stick66

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Table is very mixed. Some tight & some loose players, but poor play all around. Villian is weak-tight 25/2 over 39 hands.

This is the most aggressive I've seen him since I sat down.

Hand #42332223-17083 at Bellmawr (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 29/May/07 00:14:48
Poorestman is at seat 0 with $15.37.
The Wise Man is at seat 1 with $4.28.
Spocko- is at seat 2 with $19.05.
urwuthurts is at seat 3 with $21.08.
BubaGump is at seat 5 with $22.48.
Frosk is at seat 6 with $0 (sitting out).
diablo86 is at seat 7 with $19.43 (sitting out).
Sticky66 is at seat 8 with $18.43.
The button is at seat 2.
urwuthurts posts the small blind of $.10.
BubaGump posts the big blind of $.25.
Poorestman: -- --
The Wise Man: -- --
Spocko-: -- --
urwuthurts: -- --
BubaGump: -- --
Sticky66: Ah Ac

Pre-flop:
Sticky66 raises to $.75. Poorestman folds.
The WiseMan folds. Spocko- folds. urwuthurts folds.
BubaGump calls.

Being only 6-handed right now, I wanted a caller or 2 so I only make it 75c.

Flop (board: 2s 6d 7c):
BubaGump bets $1.60. Sticky66 raises to $3.20.
BubaGump re-raises to $4.80. Sticky66 calls.

I min re-raise to see if he's got a set. His min 3-bet might mean top pair.

Turn (board: 2s 6d 7c 7h):
BubaGump bets $11.20. Sticky66....

He bets the pot. "HUH?" Does he have a 7? Do I dare lay down these babies?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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25/2/x is actually getting a little loose-ish passive PF. What was his AF?

Minraising the flop really accomplishes very little. We don't know if he's setted us, if he's got TP, or an overpair. Reraise to like $5, then see what he does.

As played, it made our decision really sticky :/

I think this has to be a fold.
 
tiltboy

tiltboy

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i'd lay AA down, if he's fairly loose PF and is betting like that in the hand i would be comfortable with laying my AA down but....


His mini raise off your miniraise is strange for just holding top pair. He may have had 2 pair, set (but then his hand would have been locked so it would be strange for him to bet as he has), or overcard pockets himself. That mini reraise was the kind of move players make to extract a little more out of the pot and if your holding a vunerable hand like 7's a weak player would want to close the hand down.

It's a hard spot, i find it strange to think he has the 7 it depends on his table image and your image. If he really is a poor player your probably best laying it down becuase your nearly wiped out from making a wrong call here.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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This would be one of my "if you've got it you've got it" hands, and i'd call (and yes, they usually have got it :(). I do lose at NL though so....

This is a really hard one, an overpair to the board is possible, but Jacks (possibly 10's) and up would more likely have re-raised preflop, so 8's and 9's more probable, but then he would have probably played harder post flop to avoid being sucked out by an Ace-big kicker hand. 7x, 22 & 66 also fit of course, but don't most people tend to slow play (incorrectly) hands like this - he bet the pot? Post turn, if he's got a 7 he's going to want you to call, so $11.20 bet is a bit big (unless he wants you to think he's not got a 7 by betting big??).

So "don't know" from me - sorry :( . I'd call because I hate thinking i've been bluffed, but that's a big weakness for me.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Call/shove.

2% PFR is uber passive preflop, although his stats seem to indicate that he at least has a vague idea of what he's doing (as far as it's possible to tell from such a small sample size, anyway). I don't think he's calling a UTG raise with much that has a 7 in it, but it's possible, so his range would be something like A7/66/22/KK-88 (yes, I think it's possible he's playing 88 like this - lots of people love their overpairs in small stakes NL). Add in a slight possibility that he's bluffing with overcards or something and I think we can justify a call here, although I agree with the general consensus that it is pretty close.

Edit: Obviously villain will only have played a few hands from the blinds, but knowing if/how he's defended his blinds before would be useful here.
 
tenbob

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FOLD FOLD FOLD !!!!!!!!!!!

I dont care how the hand played out, you shove he has JJ you win. etc Simple as, this is not a hand to play for your entire stack with. Shove if you like, but if you play this way on a regular basis youll get continually stacked. The flop action should tell it all, hes raising because he wants to get called.

A7/66/22 should be shown down here 70% + of the time
 
Stick66

Stick66

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Votes are: 2 "Fold", 1 "Probably Fold", 1 "Call", and 1 "Probably Call".

Well, lately I've been working on 2 techniques I read about in 'Theory of Poker'. One is 2nd & 3rd degree thinking and the other is assigning percentages to the likelyhood of my opponents' holdings in order to determine implied odds. The first one I am picking up on well, but I've found that the second one is tough in online poker due to the short time limit they give you for your decision. But I'm also learning to somewhat combine the 2 processes.

On the turn of this hand and in my mind, I started off by pretty much eliminating him from having a 7 since he was so tight. Even though he was the Big Blind, he wouldn't have tried it. Then I heavily discounted him having 22 or 66 because he likely would have slowplayed or check-raised by now. I also thought he would have probably re-raised preflop if he had KK or QQ. So I thought "What does he think I have?" Since there are no draws on board, he's not trying to keep me from drawing. Since I raised a somewhat harmless amount pre-flop, he might think I have 2 overcards or an overpair. Was he trying to rep a 7 to get me to lay down TT or AK? Then I remembered a couple of past occurances with players just like him. A couple of other times, I've seen poor, weak, tight players get caught bluffing in similar situations because A) they aren't very good at bluffing, and B) they aren't very good at making a tough laydown when caught. So I put him on a bluff with overs and I was right.

In the short decision time given, I couldn't really assign percentages to the possibilities. But I think I got the thought proccess as right as I could in that short time.

Does the above make sense OR did I make a donkey move?

Hand #42332223-17083 at Bellmawr (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 29/May/07 00:14:48
Poorestman is at seat 0 with $15.37.
The Wise Man is at seat 1 with $4.28.
Spocko- is at seat 2 with $19.05.
urwuthurts is at seat 3 with $21.08.
BubaGump is at seat 5 with $22.48.
Frosk is at seat 6 with $0 (sitting out).
diablo86 is at seat 7 with $19.43 (sitting out).
Sticky66 is at seat 8 with $18.43.
The button is at seat 2.
urwuthurts posts the small blind of $.10.
BubaGump posts the big blind of $.25.
Poorestman: -- --
The Wise Man: -- --
Spocko-: -- --
urwuthurts: -- --
BubaGump: -- --
Sticky66: Ah Ac

Pre-flop:
Sticky66 raises to $.75. Poorestman folds. The Wise
Man folds. Spocko- folds. urwuthurts folds.
BubaGump calls.

Flop (board: 2s 6d 7c):
BubaGump bets $1.60. Sticky66 raises to $3.20.
BubaGump re-raises to $4.80. Sticky66 calls.

Turn (board: 2s 6d 7c 7h):
BubaGump bets $11.20. Sticky66 goes all-in for
$12.88. BubaGump calls.

River (board: 2s 6d 7c 7h Qh):
(no action in this round)

Showdown:
Sticky66 shows Ah Ac.
Sticky66 has Ah Ac 7c 7h Qh: two pair, aces and sevens.
BubaGump mucks cards.
(BubaGump has As Td.)

Hand #42332223-17083 Summary:
$1.46 is raked from a pot of $36.96.
Sticky66 wins $35.50 with two pair, aces and sevens.
 
tiltboy

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It always puts a smile on my face when a Donk loses their chips.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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It always puts a smile on my face when a Donk loses their chips.
Why is he a Donk? There are some v.good players on this thread that would have slung AA here (you yourself may have :rolleyes: ) - His turn bet was very aggressive and is getting a lot of hands better than his to fold (and leaving him with outs - he thinks - if he's called). His mistake in the hand was probably the small re-raise on the flop, but forget about what he's actually got - he was playing his hand like he had a good one, and was unfortunate to run into AA.
 
J

joeeagles

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Votes are: 2 "Fold", 1 "Probably Fold", 1 "Call", and 1 "Probably Call".

Well, lately I've been working on 2 techniques I read about in 'Theory of Poker'. One is 2nd & 3rd degree thinking and the other is assigning percentages to the likelyhood of my opponents' holdings in order to determine implied odds. The first one I am picking up on well, but I've found that the second one is tough in online poker due to the short time limit they give you for your decision. But I'm also learning to somewhat combine the 2 processes.

On the turn of this hand and in my mind, I started off by pretty much eliminating him from having a 7 since he was so tight. Even though he was the Big Blind, he wouldn't have tried it. Then I heavily discounted him having 22 or 66 because he likely would have slowplayed or check-raised by now. I also thought he would have probably re-raised preflop if he had KK or QQ. So I thought "What does he think I have?" Since there are no draws on board, he's not trying to keep me from drawing. Since I raised a somewhat harmless amount pre-flop, he might think I have 2 overcards or an overpair. Was he trying to rep a 7 to get me to lay down TT or AK? Then I remembered a couple of past occurances with players just like him. A couple of other times, I've seen poor, weak, tight players get caught bluffing in similar situations because A) they aren't very good at bluffing, and B) they aren't very good at making a tough laydown when caught. So I put him on a bluff with overs and I was right.

In the short decision time given, I couldn't really assign percentages to the possibilities. But I think I got the thought proccess as right as I could in that short time.

Does the above make sense OR did I make a donkey move?


Very nice call, and the above does make sense. I'm pretty sure I make this call too, mostly because this seems like villain is overplaying an overpair (88+), like players at this level often do and the turn shove would have made me very suspicious of that. The turn 7 is actually a good card for you, for the reasoning he's tight and likely doesn't have a 7, as you point out. Nice call.

Now, just not to seem results oriented, I don't disagree with those who thought about folding. I agree you shouldn't play your whole stack on the turn with this hand, in the long run you'll get stacked more often than not. I know I'm contradicting myself here going both ways (fold, call), but I'm just trying to say that while I would have called here, for reasons above, those who suggested to fold made some really fine points and the final result shouldn't lead to think they were wrong. If this were $100 max or above, it should be folded more often not, IMO.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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This hand still played out terribly badly, you say hes tight hence you play for your stack. He had A10 that time, why not A7 ?

His bluff was brilliant, you call was poor.
 
pink_floyd67

pink_floyd67

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Why is he a Donk? There are some v.good players on this thread that would have slung AA here (you yourself may have :rolleyes: ) - His turn bet was very aggressive and is getting a lot of hands better than his to fold (and leaving him with outs - he thinks - if he's called). His mistake in the hand was probably the small re-raise on the flop, but forget about what he's actually got - he was playing his hand like he had a good one, and was unfortunate to run into AA.

he is a donk because.
he thinks he can steal the pot.
He thinks sticker didnt hit anything on that flop which technicly is true but if sticker made a raise preflop he could have A something and most likely he has AJ AQ AK which is a dominating hand against him.
If he thinks sticker has a small to med pair and he still has 2 over cards the odds are very low with only 2 more crds to come for him to pair and win.
So basicly he is a donk for not thinking the hand through.
 
gord962

gord962

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This hand still played out terribly badly, you say hes tight hence you play for your stack. He had A10 that time, why not A7 ?

I was thinking exactly this. From the BB, a call for .50 with A7 is simple. He was representing TPTK on the flop and if I am pushing with AA at any point I am doing it then, not when the second seven comes down.
 
K

Kajagugu

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This hand still played out terribly badly, you say hes tight hence you play for your stack. He had A10 that time, why not A7 ?

His bluff was brilliant, you call was poor.

Wrong. There is no reason to bet so big with A7. Why scare your opponent away? You will only get called by very few hands, and they all beat you (really only 66, 22, 76 and 72 beat you at this point). With top set and no draws you should massage the pot and get your opponent to make a mistake by calling with a losing hand. What do you gain from getting him to fold?

So A7 is almost certainly out of the question. As are the other 'nut' hands: 76, 72, 66 and 22.

So this bluff is awful. And the call is excellent.

Good job.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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This hand still played out terribly badly, you say hes tight hence you play for your stack. He had A10 that time, why not A7 ?

His bluff was brilliant, you call was poor.

That's a pretty general way of putting it. You say "Why not A7?", I say "Why not Kings?" and we go on in a near-endless loop of boringness.

I still stand by my last post. (a) It's $25NL, (b) villain's play doesn't make a lot of sense (calling pf, min 3-betting the flop then potting the turn - what?), and given such erratic play we simply can't put him on a narrow range of hands here. I hardly think the bluff was 'brilliant' (has nobody actually seen the flop action or something?) - calling the flop and CRAI on the turn would have been a much better representation of strength (with trips+ on a 7762r board, what exactly does he have to fear by giving a free card when he can get everything in on the river anyway?)

Must admit I didn't expect to see a random bluff here (but there's always a possibility as I said), but I think we definitely see weaker overpairs often enough here to make a call reasonable. Just because someone is tight preflop (although I'd take issue with 25% VPIP% at a full table being overly 'tight') doesn't mean they're not a horrible postflop player (and generally someone who min 3-bets a flop is going to be a horrible postflop player).
 
Stick66

Stick66

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This hand still played out terribly badly, you say hes tight hence you play for your stack. He had A10 that time, why not A7 ?

His bluff was brilliant, your call was poor.
Then you better not ever bluff me, TB. I'll just donkey call you down. LOL
 
alexanderwoo1

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Thank god donks play so bad! Good call.
 
L

LoaderAA

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The limit there isnt that large, nobody was going to re-morgage their house or anything. I think a call was very suitable. Who wants to play poker where gambling isnt involved?
 
arkadiy

arkadiy

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If he is playing tight, and he played pretty loose this hand, I would've put him on either AK (or 2 face cards and 10 included in that) or pockets.

I would've definitely called, it would've been different if he limped in pre-flop and then all of a sudden comes out betting and raising. I probably would've shoved after he raised me pre-flop to an all-in so I don't give myself a chance to fold out of fear.
 
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