$60 (deep) NLHE - AA vs aggression on scary Turn

Bombjack

Bombjack

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Reads:
kostyan_b: 64/9/1.4
lavender_ape: 48/3/0.8
(draw your own conclusions).

I don't put kostyan_b on a big hand... I don't think he's good enough to bet into me with a set. A draw is possible but I'm probably well ahead. If I'm beat I'm going to pay him off because he's short stacked.

I get an overcall behind and a big scare card on the turn... I fold... thoughts?

full tilt poker Game #2227373614: Table Chang (deep) - $0.15/$0.30 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:59:13 ET - 2007/04/16
Seat 1: dmaddict ($17.85)
Seat 2: 32suited ($29.70)
Seat 3: mchonts ($20)
Seat 4: lavender_ape ($53.10)
Seat 5: kostyan_b ($19.60)
Seat 6: donthideme ($31.60)
Seat 7: TexasQuitie ($61.05)
Seat 8: Bombjack_x ($68.65)
Seat 9: gpmike ($17.60)
kostyan_b posts the small blind of $0.15
donthideme posts the big blind of $0.30
mchonts posts a dead small blind of $0.15
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bombjack_x [:ad4: :ah4:]
TexasQuitie calls $0.30
Bombjack_x raises to $1.50
gpmike folds
dmaddict folds
32suited folds
mchonts folds
lavender_ape calls $1.50
kostyan_b calls $1.35
donthideme folds
TexasQuitie calls $1.20
*** FLOP *** [:7d4: :js4: :3s4:]
kostyan_b bets $6.45
TexasQuitie folds
Bombjack_x calls $6.45
lavender_ape calls $6.45
*** TURN *** [7d Js 3s] [:ks4:]
kostyan_b bets $11.65, and is all in
Bombjack_x folds
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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With two spades out, why are you not raising the flop? I'd pop it here to put kostyan all in when it comes back to him. That should be some sort of signal to ape if you're willing to put the opening bettor all in and that you're serious about playing this hand. Your flat call gives ape reasonable odds to chase, especially if he is on the FD.
 
B

broncos53

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pocket kings or KJ maybe even pocket 7;s w/e it is sure he has you beat heck i dont think he would bet the chasing a flush but you never know
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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I'd raise enough to put kostyan all-in on flop (~$20). Also this way player behind you will get the hell out of the way with a spade draw instead of having the opportunity to make a correct call. Also keeps you from this gross situation where you may possibly still have the best hand but pretty much have to fold.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Sangwich!

Wonder bread slice #1 could very well have us beat, but with pot size we would want to look him up.

Peanut butter might have to lean towards folding or making a weak call/fold with wonder bread slice #2 sitting behind us apparently interested in seeing this turn.

sorry, 3am doobage = weird posts.

I like a flop raise too. I think considering stack sizes we could throw in a small raise to isolate the small stack, and save $ if the stack behind us pops it up.
 
A

alan1983

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You folded because of lavender behind you right?
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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This isn't WA/WB, especially with 4 players in. Raise the flop.

As played, well the Ks is pretty much the single worst card that could have come, so it's probably a decent fold, much as I hate it.

One question - if the turn is the 2s are you still folding to the same bet?
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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You folded because of lavender behind you right?
This is mainly it.

I got the feeling that this card hit too much of the ranges of 2 players for 1 pair to be good here.

As for raising the flop... this was probably the right move, but there are a couple of extra considerations that make it non-obvious.

a) Villain #1 has bet pot and is doing the betting for me. Raising for value is less of an issue on this flop because #1 is already pot-committed, and if I and #2 call, a big bet on the turn will put most of our remaining stacks in.

b) I want to get some value for my hand. If Villain #1 has air or a low pair, he'll probably fold to a raise. I'm giving him some rope to bluff the turn when I'm probably still well ahead. My hand remains disguised.

c) What's Villain #2 going to do? If he has something like AJ he might even raise the flop, which is good for me, although a tough decision. But if he has a marginal hand, I want him to think he's getting a good price and come along for the ride. Since he has a bigger stack than #1, this is potentially where most of my profit on this hand is coming from.

If the turn was [2s] I'd probably have called, since folding here was pretty marginal.
 
calibanboy

calibanboy

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A couple of comments

1) a bigger raise pre flop with aces avoids too many people in the hand in the first place. With AA I think you need less players at a higher price.

2) I would have shoved all in after the raise on the flop. ( with less players in the hand probably because of 1 ). Basically you want callers ona drawing hand - even if you lose this one.


I would hope that these would eradicate this situation.

Having said it - your in this situation. Me It would depend on what I thought of lavender ( and what I thought he thought of me ). If I thought lavender would fold if I called, I would. very Marginal though - likely fold for me. ( 2 people calling on a 2 spade flop and flush made on turn)
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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I don't like making a huge overbet on the flop since I'll tend to get calls only if I'm on 2 outs against a set, or if the guy sitting behind is bad enough to think I'm bluffing and calls with any pair. With effective stacks of 2 buy-ins I'm not going to go bust with one pair. A smaller bet is likely to get calls from worse hands, which is what I want to get some value.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Well I think it's safe to say if we're calling kostyan's flop bet, we're willing to call his remaining $11 and change (right?). Raise to like ~$15 on the flop, and if villain behind us comes over the top, we dump it. If kostyan pushes, we obviously call.

By raising smaller, we save some $$ if villain sitting behind us has a set, and we isolate vs the small stack.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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Here's my bit of results-orientedness for the night....

*** TURN *** [:7d4: :js4: :3s4: :ks4:]
kostyan_b bets $11.65, and is all in
Bombjack_x folds
lavender_ape calls $11.65
kostyan_b shows [:5h4: :5s4:]
lavender_ape shows [:kd4: :jd4:]
*** RIVER *** [7d Js 3s Ks] [:4h4:]
kostyan_b shows a pair of Fives
lavender_ape shows two pair, Kings and Jacks
lavender_ape wins the pot ($46.65) with two pair, Kings and Jacks
kostyan_b is sitting out
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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Hahahaha that is hilarious. He gets 2 flat-calls on that board, then another spade comes and he shoves 55. rofl
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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kostyan_b bets $11.65, and is all in
Bombjack_x folds
lavender_ape calls $11.65
kostyan_b shows [:5h4: :5s4:]
lavender_ape shows [:kd4: :jd4:]
*** RIVER *** [7d Js 3s Ks] [:4h4:]
kostyan_b shows a pair of Fives
lavender_ape shows two pair, Kings and Jacks
lavender_ape wins the pot ($46.65) with two pair, Kings and Jacks
kostyan_b is sitting out
Bombjack_x sits in chair staring at screen wondering WTF these two were doing
fyp
 
J

joeeagles

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Don't know what kostyan_b was thinking, but for sure that was a great laydown on your part BJ.

Your preflop play was obviously fine. I kind of think that lavender would have folded to a reraise after the flop, so that is the only "mistake" on this hand. But its a reasonable one, because of point b) that you made. So I'm not going to argue what you did on flop.

Overall I think you did a great job, this hand could have been very expensive.
 
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