50NL KJ in the BB.

Schatzdog

Schatzdog

Visionary
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Total posts
693
Hi guys,

Just looking for a line check here. Is there anything you would do different here or is this fairly standard. If you think I've made a mistake please explain in as much detail as possible. Cheers

pokerstars Game #9922033133: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/05/15 -
07:16:10 (ET)
Table 'Aquitania II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: George2Loose ($57.45 in chips)
Seat 3: Bluetones ($46 in chips)
Seat 4: Baobab_Poker ($32 in chips)
Seat 5: Thorny Cat ($53.40 in chips)
Seat 6: bagger79 ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 7: Sir_Mikkie ($44.80 in chips)
Seat 8: Briard-Sam ($60.75 in chips)
Seat 9: Boutie ($50.25 in chips)
George2Loose: posts small blind $0.25
Bluetones: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bluetones [Kc Jd]
Baobab_Poker: folds
Thorny Cat: folds
Stan2702 leaves the table
bagger79: folds
Sir_Mikkie: folds
Briard-Sam: calls $0.50
Boutie: folds
George2Loose: folds
Bluetones: raises $1.50 to $2
Briard-Sam: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [4h Jc 6c]
Bluetones: bets $3.50
Briard-Sam: calls $3.50
*** TURN *** [4h Jc 6c] [7s]
Bluetones: bets $6.50
Briard-Sam: calls $6.50
*** RIVER *** [4h Jc 6c 7s] [2c]
Bluetones: checks
Briard-Sam: bets $31
Bluetones: folds
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
Looks fine to me.

There's a case for throwing out a small blocking bet on the river and folding to a raise (advantage is you will get weaker hands to call where they may bet out and apparently force you to fold if checked to, and you're obv less likely to be bluffed), but as played seems perfectly reasonable on all streets.

Some people may dislike the preflop raise, but even though we're OOP we only have a weak limper in and can be reasonably confident in raising and c-betting a lot of flops if called.

River action seems to indicate that either he's bluffing or he has you beat (a moderately strong second-best hand would invariably check behind here). I don't think he's bluffing often enough to justify calling here, obviously.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Total posts
5,799
I don't like check/folding rivers when flush cards hit. I think bet/folding is the right play on the river.

His bet is either the result of a "please don't call me" reasoning, or he's smart enough to think "lol, people never fold anything, I go ALLIN!"

Either way, very few people will bluffraise the river. A lot of people will bluffbet. Prevent them from making good plays - block that river.
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Total posts
4,193
any reads on him? and what's your image?

Some people may dislike the preflop raise, but even though we're OOP we only have a weak limper in and can be reasonably confident in raising and c-betting a lot of flops if called.

i'm one of these people.. i don't raise much from the blinds. either when i have immediate odds with a pair or something pretty solid. and the occasional squeeze play. a hand like KJ can get you into trouble, and that kinda looks like what has happened.
 
J

joeeagles

Guest
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Total posts
1,114
Call me a tight-ass, but I totally agree with Joose. This type of play is ok only if done once in very while, IMO. Weak limper or not, I'm still OOP with a marginal holding and traling any crappy hand like A5.

As played I think it was done well, in a way that maximized his chances of winning the pot, firing on both flop and turn. Can't do anything better, except what FP said about bet/folding being superior than check/folding the river, for intuitive reasons that he already fully explained.
 
Schatzdog

Schatzdog

Visionary
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Total posts
693
Thank guys for the responses.

DM and FP,

I was thinking about a blocking bet but was fairly confident he would re-raise that. Maybe that thought, in itself, is a fault. But given that, how much do you bet here as a blocker and what do you do then if raised because now you're pretty much committed aren't you?

Joose and Joe,

My image is very tight. I was completely card dead the whole session and basically stole the blinds a few times here and there. Pretty much all my PF raises took down the blinds. He is a pretty solid aggressive player. Given my image and most of the table action I took his action as true strength.

Joose, if you check this PF, what are your actions on subsequent streets and why? I'd probably play this exactly the same way anyway, excluding the PF raise obv.

Cheers
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Total posts
5,799
You could bet another $6.50 or so. That shouldn't make you anywhere near committed, and like I said, it's usually an easy fold to a raise.

The key here is that he may easily bet with nothing, but he's much less likely to raise with nothing. Therefore, you bet because that way you get value from all the hands that have something (but a worse something than you), like QJ and A6. By checking, you're unlikely to make money off of those hands. However, by checking you invite hands that missed completely to bluff you - and you will fold to a bluff. If you bet, you will still get raised by the real hands and lose the $6, but when you check you risk losing the entire $20 pot.
 
Schatzdog

Schatzdog

Visionary
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Total posts
693
You could bet another $6.50 or so. That shouldn't make you anywhere near committed, and like I said, it's usually an easy fold to a raise.

The key here is that he may easily bet with nothing, but he's much less likely to raise with nothing. Therefore, you bet because that way you get value from all the hands that have something (but a worse something than you), like QJ and A6. By checking, you're unlikely to make money off of those hands. However, by checking you invite hands that missed completely to bluff you - and you will fold to a bluff. If you bet, you will still get raised by the real hands and lose the $6, but when you check you risk losing the entire $20 pot.

Yip, I get it. Thanks for that.
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Total posts
4,193
My image is very tight. I was completely card dead the whole session and basically stole the blinds a few times here and there. Pretty much all my PF raises took down the blinds. He is a pretty solid aggressive player. Given my image and most of the table action I took his action as true strength.

villian has to not be brain dead for this to matter, keep this in mind.
 
Top