50NL 6-max, 84o TPNK vs Uber-Maniac

edge-t

edge-t

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Joined the table for about 25 hands. Villain is a ultra maniac, betting $4 into a $0.95 pot, going to showdown with nothing more than a bluff on a high card board. I've gotta my stack through him, he's a little wary of me.

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $27.20
Button: $14.80
SB: $208.40
Hero: $100.65

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is BB with 4♠ 8♦
UTG folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 2♣ 2♠ 8♥ ($1.5, 3 players)
Hero checks, Button checks, SB bets $8, Hero ??

I believe he has nothing, he could be on any two high cards, pocket pairs very unlikely, since he raises 8xbb with them. Do you call or raise?
 
J

joeeagles

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You probably have the best hand right now, but you can't be 100% sure. Lets just assume you are ahead though, so here is the problem: this hand will probably force you in a critical decision later on if an overcard comes, so you need to think ahead. Against a hyperaggressive maniac who bets $8 in a $1.50 pot (yummy), you probably can find a better spot later given that the table is only 4-handed. I know its weak, but with his betting pattern very soon this hand could go for stacks if he doesn't slow down, are you sure you want to do that? You could if you feel like it since you're probably ahead, and odds are definitely on your side even if he has 2 overcards, so you could call or raise attempting to make him hang himself, with the call being better for that purpose, but I think I'd wait. Its really up to you though. I wouldn't argue this either way you go. There really is a lot to gain by going all the way vs a certain amount of acceptable risk.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Feb 2, 2005
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I really can't see villain doing this with overcards or something you have beat. Maybe 33-77, but even then it's a little overboard. It's hard to bud in and say that when I hadn't been sitting at the guys table, but that's how I see it with my experience with LAGs.

I wait for a spot where I'm more sure I'm ahead, and then get my money in. 8s with that ugly ugly kicker just isn't enough for me to get involved here.
 
edge-t

edge-t

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Chuck... you are so wrong. He's not the typical maniac... He's a Super Maniac!! He bets $50 into a $12 pot before this hand, with nothing but T8 on a board, where he has no draw, no pair... NOTHING!

My read on him, when he has something, he bets about 3/4 the pot, 2-3x the pot when he's bluffing. He could be setting this up for his big hand. In this situation, on a paired board, it's likely he's on J9, KQ, KJ, JT, 32, 43, 45... etc. Quite a bit actually, he raises with all his pairs, down to 22, so I'm pretty sure he has nothing ATM.

However, with 2 cards left to come, I have to dodge quite a bit of bullets. In the heat of the battle, I called and got LUCKY.

I posted this hand, because I'm unsure of whether I made the right decision in calling. I feel that it's really really a marginal call. He seriously could have been on something like A2, K2, J2... etc, and I got lucky on the turn.

Turn: 8♠ ($17.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets $40, Hero??
 
Mehman

Mehman

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replace the ?? with pushes all in and you have a winner what he end up showing?
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Without a preflop raise you have no information. A donk can also wake with a hand. Was he playing LAG, and shutting down on the turn/river. I dont like calling ths at all. You really cant justify playing for stacks here, even against a maniac.
 
edge-t

edge-t

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I pushed and he folded. Ahhh well, he's afraid of me... Didn't get to see his cards. High chances he's got a 2, and I sucked out.

Probably should have folded on the flop.
 
edge-t

edge-t

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Without a preflop raise you have no information. A donk can also wake with a hand. Was he playing LAG, and shutting down on the turn/river. I dont like calling ths at all. You really cant justify playing for stacks here, even against a maniac.

True, but he never shuts down. He'll 3-barrel with nothing. I didn't like my own call at all too, but what's the minimum you'll call with? J8-A8? T8? It's a marginal situation. if he has the 2, so be it.

Let's say you're on A8, he bets $8 into the pot, you'd fold? knowing that he's betting $40 into the $17.5 pot on the turn? At which point would you make a stand? When you have AK on a KJ2 board when he's holding TT? We meet up with a lot of marginal situation when playing against Maniacs. I think most of the time, I'd fold, but it's a paired board, which makes me think Villain has a even lower chance that he hit. Hence the call.

Not justifying my actions, but I went with my read.
 
J

joeeagles

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Not justifying my actions, but I went with my read.

Ok, I said I wasn't going to argue this either way you went, and I won't do it now. Just 1 thing though that I forgot to mention in my first post. If this hand goes for stacks, which you already know will happen with this supermaniac, right now you have $100, and because table is 50max, if you lose you can only reload $50 and that will hurt you later on against this villain, because now you can only get $50 out of him next time you go all-in. I really wouldn't know how to translate all this in terms of EV, but losing it will hurt you more than you actually think. Honestly though, were you planning on folding if an overcard hit?

Another thing, with the turn 8 why in HELL did you shove? You should have took your time to call his $40 and left him the chance to fire again on the river, its almost impossible for you to lose this hand by flat calling even if he has a duece. Man was that a waste.
 
edge-t

edge-t

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Jan 26, 2007
Total posts
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Ok, I said I wasn't going to argue this either way you went, and I won't do it now. Just 1 thing though that I forgot to mention in my first post. If this hand goes for stacks, which you already know will happen with this supermaniac, right now you have $100, and because table is 50max, if you lose you can only reload $50 and that will hurt you later on against this villain, because now you can only get $50 out of him next time you go all-in. I really wouldn't know how to translate all this in terms of EV, but losing it will hurt you more than you actually think. Honestly though, were you planning on folding if an overcard hit?

Another thing, with the turn 8 why in HELL did you shove? You should have took your time to call his $40 and left him the chance to fire again on the river, its almost impossible for you to lose this hand by flat calling even if he has a duece. Man was that a waste.

Exactly, the way I look back at this hand. I should have folded on the flop, cold call the turn and value-bet on the river.

Badly played, just wondering if you guys felt the same. Now I know I made a mistake on all streets.

Ah well, there's always a next time.
 
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