$50 NLHE Full Ring: Would you make a thin value bet on the river ?

A

Alexchen

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Yeah, your range is pretty close imho. 2 things.
1) Even though it's only 28 hands, this guy is probably a typical somewhat tighter full ring player. So his range to the river is going to be pretty transparent. A lot of these guys IF they did hit something big are betting the river. They aren't taking the chance that their opponent is checking behind, because it's FR, and players will too often.

2) It's full ring.

3) It's small stakes.

Hence... ranges get very transparent. When I assign a range, I'm never saying someone will always 4-bet QQ/JJ for example. Never get into thinking like that. Even if the exact opponent 4-bets QQ/JJ 95% of the time, you don't know if this is the 5% when they don't. You should discount some hands you think are unlikely to be in your opponents range, but don't complete remove them ever.

Assigning ranges isn't an exact science as you know. You don't need to enter every single draw for your opponent, just a few that make sense. The looser your opponent, the more we have of course. So just using this hand as an example, here's the value calling range of my opponent.

This hand driven to you directly from DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database
Board: 4d 5d 4s 2d 3h


Equity Win Tie Hand Range

33.9286% 32.1429% 1.7857% [ AA(50),AKs(100), ADQD(100), ADKC(100), ADKH(100), ADKS(100), TT-KK(100), 9D8D(100) ]

66.0714% 64.2857% 1.7857% [ KdKc ]

Notice I have AA in there, as well as a couple of made hand flushes. Since this opponent is in MP and called an UTG open, we should be removing a lot of suited connectors, that's why I only have one listed. It's also a 3-bet pot, so we have 4 factors that indicate our opponent will likely have a tighter range here. 1) They already have somewhat tight stats (small sample), 2) they called an UTG open. 3) It's full ring 4) it's a 3-bet pot.

Likely range our opponent will have by river:

This hand driven to you directly from DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database
Board: 4d 5d 4s 2d 3h


Equity Win Tie Hand Range

41.3462% 40.3846% 0.9615% [ AA(50),AKs(100), ADQD(100), ADKC(100), ADKH(100), ADKS(100), 88-KK(100), AQo(100), JDTD(100) ]

58.6538% 57.6923% 0.9615% [ KdKc ]

It's a clear river value bet.

Look how many draws I'd need to add to say it's not a river value bet.

This hand driven to you directly from DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database
Board: 4d 5d 4s 2d 3h


Equity Win Tie Hand Range

51.9608% 50.9804% 0.9804% [ AA(50),AKs(100), ADQD(100), ADJD(100), ADKC(100), ADKH(100), ADKS(100), 99-KK(100), KDQD(100), AQo(100), QDJD(100), JDTD(100), TD9D(100), 9D8D(100), 8D7D(100) ]

48.0392% 47.0588% 0.9804% [ KdKc ]

It's just not realistic.

If you want to really crush these stakes, then you need to be betting every time you have a clear VB that can be called be a worse range.

Sorry for replying late to give you feedback...Didn't know you guys have so many "interaction" on this hand...After reading you guys' conversation I almost forgot what the hand is...

Thanks for the maths you share, since we cannot do it during the hand but can learn after it.

Now when I move up to NL50 I do met someone who is not always 4betting QQ/JJ. I have better perspective now to range my opponent.
 
Hujiko

Hujiko

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Well here is my aftermath (without getting into percentages :D).

50 NL full ring mostly consist of NIT players who are multi-tabling and don't 3-4-5 bet enough.

So in this three bet pot most of the population will have AA a small percentage and KK a small percentage and AK a small percentage of the time. But mostly their hands will be considering of medium to high pairs and AJs+ and AQo. Yes I know that is extremely tight in three bet pots but that is how most of the population plays.

Flop I bet 1/2 pot which is a decent size given the stack sizes. Consider his range is mostly AJs flush draws, TT+ and AKs also none flush draws.

Turn completes the flush draw. Villain checks I bet ~ 1/3 pot which is small was afraid of the flush draw I guess, but that is a big mistake as there are only ~ 2 combos as I have the K of diamonds in my hand should have make a bigger bet here to build the pot. Villain calls range now is mostly either made hands or pairs and perhaps some AK but I block that as I have two kings in the hand and some might have 4 betted.

River completes a straight draw.

Is my hand better then his hand enough of the time?

His range for 50 NL online full ring (TAG, ROCK, NIT heavy) should be
AA ,but only a very small percentage as most will 4 bet that OOP. Lets say 1 combo AA
AK , but also here just a small percentage as most will 4 bet that OOP and I block AK as I have two Kings lets say 2 combos.
TT+ most wont 3 bets these against an UTG but will call with them, so will give this range ~ 80% => ~ 15 combo's => this is actually the tricky bit what percentage of hands wont three bet this against an UTG in 50NL online full ring.
Axs most of these hand will fold against a 3 bet and not even call an UTG raiser from MP so will only consider AQs and give this 100% as some might show up with AJs on the river.
So 4 AQs combos

I have ~ 15 combos beat and I am beaten by ~ 8 combos.

Now another indication is that the villain checks to me so I can disregard some of the made hands as they most of the time will value bet as the villain is OOP. Will assume that half of the straights (3 combos) will value bet and that all flush (2 combos) will value bet he will compensate with two bluff combos (although most on these stakes don't compensate/balance) leaving him with only 3 combos that beat me and 13 combos that I beat.

So as I am IP makes that he will probably show up with about 3 combos that beat me and 13 combos that I beat.

MY CONCLUSION
It is a clear value bet after all in a 50NL online full ring game on pokerstars.

Thx all for contributing and putting your opinions in here teaches me a lot.
 
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