$50 NLHE Full Ring: Top 2P on wet flop OOP vs a good reg

[swingro]

of course, but 3betting the mid part of your defend range is a huge mistake.

Calling OOP with a suited connector against a reg is a mistake not 3-betting. Suited connectors and pocket pairs do not work well calling OOP against regs for the simple fact that you cannot get value enough times when you catch something to make it +EV. The rest of the times you have to play passive at the opponent's mercy. 3-betting on the other hand puts pressure on the opponent and he will not go past the flop without a reason.

LD searched for a reason to justify his loose in this spots. IMO the reason is quite simple. Not being able to get value enough times when the flop brings something to compensate the major number of times when he has to fold hitting nothing and facing agression on later streets. Even with top pair is hard to face a double barrel. 3-betting on the other hand gives you the possibility to become the aggressor. If the opponent is not exploitable that easy than fold rather than play bingo OOP.
IN this example he got 2 pairs on a drawy flop. I do not know why did he think the opponent will be stupid enough to put his stack without something better like straight or a set or a monster draw..

 

[HooDooKoo]

I have not looked at the hand result yet so I'm flying somewhat blind here.

Having said that, I'm fine with folding, calling, or 3-betting preflop. I honestly don't think any of those options are big mistakes in this spot as long as you aren't the kind of player that feels obligated to fire three barrels when you whiff after an OOP 3-bet.

I like the 3-bet and its sizing post-flop but think you have to fold to the massive post-flop 4-bet vs. most any opponent --- and especially vs. a good reg. As John A said, best case postflop is you're chopping and most times you're crushed or facing a huge combo draw. If you don't fold to the post-flop 4-bet as recommended, you HAVE to shove --- there are just too many scare cards to flat this flop.

Best of luck going forward.

-HooDooKoo

 

[XXPXXP]

think that flop two pair
your two pair may not that strong as you expected.
example , if you against even spade Q and other J
you may not that ahead than you expect. -- this two pair on this board texture and against the betting range is just so so.


I might think just call flop.
just waiting to re evaluate hand equity on turns.

 

[DunningKruger]

Pre is a rather basic spot and I'm not sure why there's so much discussion on it. I have to assume the people who are saying we can't call here out of the blinds are advocating using no calling range whatsoever (not something I agree with but it's the only way it makes any sense at all).

The hand itself is more interesting. Check/raise/fold is pretty bad otf as he'll probably jam over with a bunch of combo draws we have pretty good equity against. Not saying that's what he should be doing IP when you're obv not going anywhere on that flop (it crushes your range) but it's 50NL so you'll see it a fair bit. Playing higher, or if this player really is a strong reg, then getting it in here will cost you quite a lot of money in EV.

Check/call and bet/call are both viable options, depending. If my intention is to get it in on the flop for whatever reason with this particular hand then I'd lead.

 

[tomnovember]

think that flop two pair
your two pair may not that strong as you expected.
example , if you against even spade Q and other J
you may not that ahead than you expect. -- this two pair on this board texture and against the betting range is just so so.
View attachment 66418

I might think just call flop.
just waiting to re evaluate hand equity on turns.

Nice calculation!!!

 

[LD1977]

I didn't really like XC because I will hate all Q, K, A (all give straights/sets/better 2P to his opening range) and spades and will have to hero call OOP a lot since he will fire turn a lot and river probably not too much with worse hands.

Not saying I am right ofc but this was the line of thought.

 

[DunningKruger]

Well sure. Playing poker oop in a spot like this isn't a simple thing to do, and since a lot of people prioritize making things simple on themselves even at the expense of their bottom line, I'm not surprised most people are advising against a multi street approach. An overcard to the board will peel about 1 in 4 times and if such a card allows you to get away from your hand and save your stack then so be it. If we want to get it all in otf to find out if we're beat or not (we likely will be although as I mentioned before there is a chance we could be flipping or close to it) then again I'm probably leading in that spot. If he's good he's going to check back that flop (which hits you like a meteor impact) a decent % of the time and he's also likely not going to raise on such a wet board without the intention of stacking off. I guess I've seen people raise/fold AsAx in spots like this although it's anything but common. Any way you slice it I'm not a fan of a check/raise approach here but I'm open to a discussion if somebody wanted to rationally argue the merits of it.

 

[LD1977]

So you think BF/B(F)/B(F) is the way to go?

 

[btc87]

so you guys would hate to check call and see a bad turn, and prefer to make the pot big and then see a bad turn? What would you do then when the cost will be much higher?

Swingpro, you basically said that he should 3bet his whole range. That could make sense, but ~15% 3bet from that position would be easily exploitable.

 

[mojoe2209]

well played (Y)
you are a winning player

 

[akaRobbo]

This isn't a complicated hand, dunno why there's so much discussion over it. Either 3bet or flat pre, depending on villain and situation. Raise his bet and fold to re raise. Continue aggression if just called. Not too difficult

 

[kape]

Very scary!
I'm afraid the KQ, but it is very difficult to fold. Perhaps I would have gone all-in.

 

[Arran]

Surely you could check/call flop because you have implied odds and if you get FH you can get it in, they probs have something on that wet board texture anyway and doubt they would fold to check raise?? And anyways I doubt they'd bluff on a flop like this?

 

[JCgrind]

/facepalm.

 

[Thinker_145]

I don't say that I always fold JTs in the BB against a tight range but its definitely something I contemplate and have done a few times. It's quite an interesting question if folding pre is the best option.

I don't agree with 3 betting here I mean if we do this every time in this situation then it can't really turn out to be good.

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