This is a discussion on $5 NLHE 6-max: What is our BB flatting range? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; First or second orbit. None of these players look familiar/do data.
QTs is sometimes in my 3 bet range, but I felt we could flat here
Definitely just calling with this hand. Lets see a cheap flop against his wide range.
Check is standard, not much to say. Nice that he checked back
Since he checked back, he probably dont have an ace. Seem fine to bet and charge him for trying to draw out on us.
I am not quite sure, we have a 2 street hand. We dont even have a very good kicker. So I might lean towards a check-call. Its definitely a weird spot, when he raise. What exactly is the story, he is telling here? 99 that rivered a set? Q9 that rivered two pair? A9 that did not C-bet? A weirdly slowplayed AA, that flopped top set?
He is repping pretty thin, and all the draws missed, so I might get curious here and lock him up. You would be calling 9BB to win 40BB, and I think, he could be bluffing more than 25% of the time. For me the river is either a check-call or as played a bet-call. I dont like bet-folding. I think, you are just getting outplayed a bit to often.
22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo
We know that this particular player in the BTN is most likely to be a recreative (35 BB effective stack).
We know that with our QTo we have 39.11% equity for calling versus 2.8x raise. We must pay 1.8 blinds for a pot of 6 blinds: we need to be right only 33% of times when we call here and we are right a little bit more, (39.11%), okay.
Nonetheless, without being too much candid, I would advocate this is not a profitable call, this is a clear fold spot: to have odds for calling here we should not only consider the brute pot odds, but we must consider how much Villain has behind to play postflop for the times we hit our hand.
We see that BTN started the hand with only 35 blinds which makes our calling here totally not profitable. We are calling preflop to fight for a stack of barely 33 blinds later? If the player in the BTN had at least 50 BB effective stack, I will think a lot before calling down from the Big Blind.
QT is the kind of hand that I will either 3bet or fold because it is a weak hand and has a very poor playability postflop. But, how can we 3bet a player with only 30 blinds left in its stack? If we 3bet here we must be ready for a jam, ready for calling a jam, and we don't want to call a jam with QTo.
At the micros we simply cannot cold call very wide from the blinds, even in a spot of BTN x BB. The 3bet light preflop is much more profitable:
A) By 3betting light preflop we can take down a very good pot without paying any rake B) By 3betting light preflop we avoid to be overplayed postflop, because once we 3bet we have the initiative, and the better hands are on our range.
I elect to defend the big blind by cold calling versus smaller raises, such as 2.5x and 2x, coming from Late Position. I also like to call with the same hands that I could be making a 3bet preflop. The villain should have at minimum 50 BB stack for me to think about cold calling or cold 3betting.
Give that you called preflop, you lost the initiative and should have most dominated hands. I would simply check-fold this. When I hit a Qx in the flop it has no value because it is dominated by QJo for example. There was an ace in the flop and we know recreative players never fold their Ax combos BTN x BB.
I understand your line of thought here, when BTN checks it seems a good spot for bluffing, but we have a value hand! IF we bet our value hand we are turning it into a bluff. If we get re-raised we can never continue and then, our value hand lost its value. Check, check and check and sometimes your QT will be ahead of villain's opening range.
When you bet in a scenario of missed C-bet flop you are just giving rope for your opponent to hang you.
I hope this helps you! If you have any questions, ideias, comments, please, do not hesitate to say/ask!
Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
__________________ Respect and gl always!
FlopStraightAndFlush, gustav197poker liked this post
re: Poker & $5 NLHE 6-max: What is our BB flatting range?
Originally Posted by quant1986
I think river you can call to find out more about this villain and see if he slows play or bluffs with air. He is actually repping something like A4s, Q9, 99. In vacuum it is a fold to me.
Hello quant1986 good evening, how you doing? Thanks a ton for your comment, it is paramount for our group learning and personal experience.
What you said could be valid, if we are talking about 500 NLHE. Even so, I don't think many pros are calling to "find out" more about villains.
With all due respect to your comment, but I believe you are in a big rush here: "I think river you can call to find out more about this villain and see if he slows play or bluffs with air".
First of all, what are our reasons to put blinds/chips/money in the pot? Because we believe we have the best hand given our X analysis. I dare to say that I would rather die of curiosity than paying "to see" what villain has/had and put a note on it. This note is too expensive for my gameplan. We gotta know that villain has air before calling down.
Everytime we call we should ask ourselves: could we be re-raising this? If not, usually is not a good call. We call when we have a value hand and we don't want villain to bluff us out of the pot, because our hand has showdown value and etc.
Why do we put money in the table?
A) When we have value: when we know/feel that our hand is ahead of V's range B) When we are bluffing: when we know/feel that our opponent has a better hand but it might fold to proper aggresion
C) We cannot bet/call/raise (put money in the pot) for information as old videos of PokerStars School claims. It is not profitable, there are other ways to extract information of our opponents without risking our winrate of the BB position.
When we are calling we are not bluffing! " We are bluffing when we are the aggressor preflop, or the aggressor flop, turn etc, and we take initiative of the hand by raising, either for value or for bluff.
Besides, the pool of 2 NLHE is gigantic. If we decide to call everytime to see that the fish is usually beating us, it will become impossible to overcome the blinds. Remember this is a Big Blind defense, not Button defense, not Cut-Off defense, those are very different scenarios where we can be making those speculatives calls in the river, not for information, but because we believe the fish is bluffing too much and our second pair/third pair ace high, king high will hold enough.
There are hundreds of players at 2 NLHE, right? How many of those players do you see trying to study and learn here at CardsChat? Most of them never read, never participate in forums, most of them believe they are already the Phil Ivey's of their generation, they feel themselves so good inside that they don't even need to study!
There are a lot of users here, good students and players for sure, all of them fine and with a nice perspective of the game, but the great part of the field is not here at CardsChat, try to think about it.
Now we have something like 595 users at CardsChat, 49 members and 545 guests! Unfortunately for them, they are not really interested in learning poker in deep. They don't want to risk themselves by entering a poker forum, because most of poker players are too proud to admit that they always have something to learn.
We are gonna call "to see" versus hundreds of players per day, and when we are out of position, in the blinds, specially in the blinds, we gotta be aware of our actions. Otherwise, we are going to lose so much from the blinds that it will be impossible to be profitable.