$5 NL HE 6-max: Is the 2nd nuts good enough with KQ?

[canbora]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.02/$.05

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

At 5NL...so there's wild and passive play. Villain is a new player to me, but SEEMS aggressive from what I've seen so far.

I'm on the button with KQ suited, hearts. I raise to open at 3x. Villain on the button 3 bets me to 9. Easy call on the button , I figure.

Pot: 6.5 bb

flop comes J h 7 h 2 d she's all red.

It checks to me, I bet half the pot. He snap min raises, I think for two seconds and call. turn comes 6d.

pot: 19.5 bb

He checks, I think for literally a second, and I check. I want a free card. This guy is going nowhere and technically, I have nothing.

river comes the 5 h . Bingo, bango, bongo...we hit.

Villain checks, I think for about 5 seconds. I bet for value, I bet 1/3 pot.

he snaps back at 3x my bet. The size of the previous full pot. Now... a cash game leak I have/had was out of math, I was calling these and literally losing every single time. Every-time. I've since quit. But this time... I mean... does he have A4 or something?? Really... is that what he's telling me? I know I'm in my own head at this point because of my recent problem. But I go in the tank for... maybe 1/3 of the allotted time before I make my decision.

So its...like 24 to win approx 92 .... do we do it, or are we beat?

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I assume, you opened on BTN and got 3-bet from the blinds even though, your post says 3-bet by BTN. The pot is then 18,5-19 BB, depending on which player 3-bet you. Your post say 6,5BB, but this would be a single raised pot. Calling the 3-bet with KQs in position is standard.

Flop
I would also start a semibluff here with a flushdraw and two overs. The check min-raise is pretty surpricing and smells like the nuts, but at this point you have no other option than call and try to make a hand. You are getting like 5:1. Pot should now be 55,5-57BB.

Turn
Definitly not betting again, when he check-raised the flop.

River
If you started with 100BB, there is a little over a pot sized bet left, and I would probably just jam trying to get max value from a weirdly played top set or maybe an overpair. A small bet is also ok though, if you think, his calling range is very sensitive to sizing. As played when he check-jam, he probably has the nut flush. But you are getting better than 3:1, and you have the second nut flush, so you absolutely can not fold.

There are only 7 combos of the nut flush, that are even possible, and sometimes he might be overplaying a lower flush or show up with a random spazz. If he has it, its just a cooler, and everyone goes broke here, regardless how the hand was played on the earlier streets. If for instance he goes bet, bet, jam instead of this weird stop-and-go line, then you are of course calling him down. So if he has the nuts, its not like, his weird line won him anything extra.

 

[canbora]

Preflop
I assume, you opened on BTN and got 3-bet from the blinds even though, your post says 3-bet by BTN. The pot is then 18,5-19 BB, depending on which player 3-bet you. Your post say 6,5BB, but this would be a single raised pot. Calling the 3-bet with KQs in position is standard.

Flop
I would also start a semibluff here with a flushdraw and two overs. The check min-raise is pretty surpricing and smells like the nuts, but at this point you have no other option than call and try to make a hand. You are getting like 5:1. Pot should now be 55,5-57BB.

Turn
Definitly not betting again, when he check-raised the flop.

River
If you started with 100BB, there is a little over a pot sized bet left, and I would probably just jam trying to get max value from a weirdly played top set or maybe an overpair. A small bet is also ok though, if you think, his calling range is very sensitive to sizing. As played when he check-jam, he probably has the nut flush. But you are getting better than 3:1, and you have the second nut flush, so you absolutely can not fold.

There are only 7 combos of the nut flush, that are even possible, and sometimes he might be overplaying a lower flush or show up with a random spazz. If he has it, its just a cooler, and everyone goes broke here, regardless how the hand was played on the earlier streets. If for instance he goes bet, bet, jam instead of this weird stop-and-go line, then you are of course calling him down. So if he has the nuts, its not like, his weird line won him anything extra.

You have my apologies the past 24 to 48 hours, technology has just been giving me a bit of a rough time. I tried fixing this three times when I was able to. Yes you're correct that was an error. The pre-flop pot was three bet. My typing either spazes and goes nuts or it freezes.

I actually had to close this back out and open it up it actually froze on me trying to type this reply

 

[Station_Master]

3 bet pot where there are only a few logical hands that beat you = snap call.

It's only really AThh, A9, A4 and maybe a couple of others depending how wide he 3bets. And would he really play them this way?

 

[canbora]

3 bet pot where there are only a few logical hands that beat you = snap call.

It's only really AThh, A9, A4 and maybe a couple of others depending how wide he 3bets. And would he really play them this way?

To me, A4 made the most sense. But then you have to think... "what are the odds?" hahah. famous last words.


Before i forget I'm going to post the answer, I'll just blurr it below.

So, I wanted outside opinions on this to regain and calibrate my perspective. I've had serious bad history with river re raises and literally, every single time i'm beat. But like always, we break even our own rules. So I wanted opinions.

Anyway, I went in the tank a while, I'm like... really??? again?? A - high flush? I just thought for sure I was beat. But for whatever reason, I called. He flips over 34 of hearts. We win!!!

Bro got some notes record on him and he was labeled "orange". Orange to me means just regular plain aggressive.

As always, thanks everyone. Good to hear my instincts were on track.

 

[gustav197poker]

Ok preflop, on the flop you can make a smaller bet, but you can also check behind. This texture is too dry for you and your villain needs to gamble to get you out of the pot. When V does not bet he means that his range becomes wider and apparently he is not looking for protection (something to keep in mind).
V's X/R is quite value-oriented, although min raise always warrants a call.
Ok turn and river is a check, vs suspicious range like this. You do not gain additional EV for betting the card that limits your range. Although you say that he is an aggressive player, I suppose that you have not played with him enough to have this fact firmly established.
As played is a standard call.

 

[canbora]

Ok preflop, on the flop you can make a smaller bet, but you can also check behind. This texture is too dry for you and your villain needs to gamble to get you out of the pot. When V does not bet he means that his range becomes wider and apparently he is not looking for protection (something to keep in mind).
V's X/R is quite value-oriented, although min raise always warrants a call.
Ok turn and river is a check, vs suspicious range like this. You do not gain additional EV for betting the card that limits your range. Although you say that he is an aggressive player, I suppose that you have not played with him enough to have this fact firmly established.
As played is a standard call.

I appreciate it.

And yeah this guy was brand new to me, I didn't have enough information up until this point that's why I was so worried and why I was cautious. Otherwise I wouldn't have thought anything about this call.

 

[Vallet]

Let's think about the likely hand of the villain with the ace of hearts. After all, the only hand that bothers you is the nuts flush.
The villain raises on the preflop. AT suited may be in its range. Why not?
Minimum raise on the flop with a flush draw. Why do this if he needs a free card. Maybe he has a good pocket pair.
The turn did not strengthen anyone. Perhaps the villain is waiting for your actions.
The long-awaited flush has come to you on the river. You place a valuable bet and get a return raise from him again.
What if his pocket pair is no longer valuable and he has turned his hand into a bluff. The villain can still have AT hearts in his range. But his actions were not aggressive on the turn. The villain only plays aggressively when you bet on the river. Is it possible to think about bluffing at the moment?

I can say the following. Before placing a bet on the river, you had to think in advance what you would do in case of an opponent's raise. It is unlikely that you would have folded regardless of the size of the bet. It's just important to think ahead.

 

[Aballinamion]

I'm on the button with KQ suited, hearts. I raise to open at 3x. Villain on the button 3 bets me to 9. Easy call on the button , I figure.

Villain is on the Big Blind not button. Preflop we have at least 30% equity against a decent 3-bet range so we call knowing that we are already dominated for AQ, AK, AA, KK, etc.

Pot: 6.5 bb

flop comes J h 7 h 2 d she's all red.

Not a bad flop. 44% equity give or take against BB's 3-bet range. The pot size on the flop is not so small (6.5 BB) since BB made a 9 blinds 3-bet preflop.

It checks to me, I bet half the pot. He snap min raises, I think for two seconds and call. turn comes 6d.

Okay. Now we have (best case scenario) 26% equity.

pot: 19.5 bb

He checks, I think for literally a second, and I check. I want a free card. This guy is going nowhere and technically, I have nothing.

Good action,

river comes the 5 h . Bingo, bango, bongo...we hit.

Villain checks, I think for about 5 seconds. I bet for value, I bet 1/3 pot.

Yeah, this would be a "bingo" if we had the ace of hearts on our range. Consider that villain still might have the ace of hearts. We own only the second and third nut flush. When we bet 1/3 pot here for value, we expect to extract value of what types of hands exactly?

he snaps back at 3x my bet. The size of the previous full pot. Now... a cash game leak I have/had was out of math, I was calling these and literally losing every single time. Every-time. I've since quit. But this time... I mean... does he have A4 or something?? Really... is that what he's telling me? I know I'm in my own head at this point because of my recent problem. But I go in the tank for... maybe 1/3 of the allotted time before I make my decision.

So its...like 24 to win approx 92 .... do we do it, or are we beat?

As long as we haven't completed the nut flush on the river we could went for check-calling to realize our equity better. Now we bet and villain raised and when it comes raises like this most of times villain has us.

 

[ScooperNova]

I'd probably shove the river tbh.