25nl AA vs call down; river action?

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Again I've got a tag image, but a recent hand might make it look like I'm tilting or slightly more aggro than I actually am. I raised OTB, SB 3-bet (he'd done this several times), and I 4-bet folded to a push since we were deep.

It's only been three hands since, and I raised one in between, taking the blinds down.

Villain is a ~25/20/2.5 tag.

Pokerstars Game (?) HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/11/05 - 22:10:37 (ET)
Table 'Eurynome II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ($25.35 in chips)
Seat 2: llamabones ($49.55 in chips)
Seat 3: spaztic02 ($32.35 in chips)
Seat 4: MoneyBaggz8 ($23.80 in chips)
Seat 5: wazawskiHH ($18.35 in chips)
Seat 6: TrippyHH ($82.85 in chips)
wazawskiHH: posts small blind $0.10
TrippyHH: posts big blind $0.25

Holecards:
Dealt to Hero [
spadeA.gif
diamA.gif
]
Hero : raises $0.60 to $0.85
llamabones: folds
spaztic02: folds
MoneyBaggz8: calls $0.85
wazawskiHH: folds
TrippyHH: calls $0.60

Flop: (Pot: $2.65)
[
heart4.gif
diam10.gif
club6.gif
]
TrippyHH: checks
Hero : bets $2
MoneyBaggz8: calls $2
TrippyHH: folds

Turn: (Pot: $6.65)
[
heart4.gif
diam10.gif
club6.gif
] [
club8.gif
]
Hero : bets $5
MoneyBaggz8: calls $5

River: (Pot: $16.65)
[
heart4.gif
diam10.gif
club6.gif
club8.gif
] [
heart8.gif
]
Hero
: ...

What's our range on him and what's our action?
 
zachvac

zachvac

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very interesting, at this point I doubt you can put him on an 8. I'd say something like 57 but I don't see how you call a PF raise with that. One hand I could see him playing something like AT. Unless he's an idiot there's no way he called the flop bet with A8, only one over to the flop, although it's always a slight possibility. You got a pretty easy board though because none of the potential straight draws hit, and the pair on the board was the one that hit on the turn. I guess it's possible he called with 78s, flopped a gut shot, turned a pair, and rivered the trips, but that's highly unlikely. At this point I'd value bet it, make it something like $5 again, so that hopefully you get calldowns from AT and the likes.

The question then comes though, what do you do about a re-raise? I think if he shoves it's an easy fold, but what if he puts another $7 or so on top or a minraise? Can you fold? Should you fold? I'm not sure what I'd do to a re-raise, but I'd definitely value bet that river. Don't want to encourage a bluff here and you could get calls from hands you beat.
 
J

jeffred1111

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With us being out of position, villain range is pretty narrow and I would include 99, JJ, QQ (maybe), AT and maybe KT, plus sets and straights (we can rule out any busted draws at this point IMHO).

I don't see us being ahead more than being behind here so I put out a little blocking/value bet and fold to any reraise or, more likely, I check/fold or check/call since I can't see even AT calling here, but I can see AT betting.
 
A

Arsh9

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Ya..would put him on KT or A 10..definitely not trips..value bet the river..like half the pot
 
Region8

Region8

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AA...is usally an all-in for most players.....not sure if that would've pushed him off..... he appears to be a chaser ( with extra cash to lose )
when the 8c hit the flop you bet $5 he calls makes be think he's got 7c 9c
then slow played ...... with no A's on the board I might have checked or push heavy.....( hard to know what a player would do unless you was the one in the hand) anyway..... I would've checked and folded to another $5 bet.....as I said.....he chased his trips to the river...maybe you discarded the straight or even a flush draw and bet in hopes of AA being highest pair or to catch "A" trips on the river... it seemed to be to many outs for him and you had only two......two pair or trips. Although I don't think you played your hand bad....he just got lucky on th river....just like you could have.
 
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ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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With us being out of position, villain range is pretty narrow and I would include 99, JJ, QQ (maybe), AT and maybe KT, plus sets and straights (we can rule out any busted draws at this point IMHO).

I don't see us being ahead more than being behind here so I put out a little blocking/value bet and fold to any reraise or, more likely, I check/fold or check/call since I can't see even AT calling here, but I can see AT betting.

Well with that range {99,JJ,QQ,AT,KT,hands that beat us} I think we can definitley value bet. There are only trips, full houses and straights that beat us, and the trips and straights are very unlikely.

I think a bet-fold is the best option; no pair is calling down to raise us on the river. I think the bigger question is how much we can get out of a smaller pair while saving $ when we're behind.

The pot on the river is $16.65, and we've got $17.5 left in our stack. In retrospect I like $5-$10, but we're so committed that we probably have to call a push anyways.

I ended up pushing in hopes of it looking like an overbet bluff with AK or the like, and he folded.
 
J

jeffred1111

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Well with that range {99,JJ,QQ,AT,KT,hands that beat us} I think we can definitley value bet. There are only trips, full houses and straights that beat us, and the trips and straights are very unlikely.

I think a bet-fold is the best option; no pair is calling down to raise us on the river. I think the bigger question is how much we can get out of a smaller pair while saving $ when we're behind.

The pot on the river is $16.65, and we've got $17.5 left in our stack. In retrospect I like $5-$10, but we're so committed that we probably have to call a push anyways.

I ended up pushing in hopes of it looking like an overbet bluff with AK or the like, and he folded.

Extracting value out of this due to the pot being almost the exact size of our remaining stack is pretty difficult, but I disagree on us being comitted if we put out a 5$ bet and get raised. Clearly, no hands that we beat will raise this and even with the gigamornous pot odds we would get, a call there would be very thin, especially against a villain who was so passive during the hand. The push is good IMHO if we know we will get a call from worse hands some of the time, but in this situation, I doubt that's the case and we're turning our hand into a bluff.

I'm still inclined to check/call anything reasonable or put out a small bet.
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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There is absolutely no hand he could have but AT or KT that he could have called a PF raise and then called on every street (overpair to the tens would have reraised PF or on harmless flop) apart from uber-slowplaying a set. I just can't see a situation where your aces aren't good unless he's played the hand seriously wierdly - so I value bet $7 I think: if he's called you this far with AT nothing more threatening has come so he'll defo call but any lower bet might look weak and he could easily put you allin if you just bet 5 again and then you have a decision.

Definately value bet.
 
Strong Dollar1

Strong Dollar1

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I put him on AT or AK, I would for sure value bet $7, and see if he reraises, if he reraises, he most likely filled up and was just hoping you would push into him, but I would for sure play this hand defensively.
 
jaketrevvor

jaketrevvor

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I put him on AT or AK, I would for sure value bet $7, and see if he reraises, if he reraises, he most likely filled up and was just hoping you would push into him, but I would for sure play this hand defensively.

I confused - how is value betting almost half your remaining stack playing it defensively?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Yeah but with a shove surely the villain can fold A/KT so we're not getting as much value..

Exactly what I was thinking. We're pushing out 7s, 9s, Tx, and maybe JJ (JJ-KK I see reraising PF though), and only getting called by sets, straights and full houses.

On the other hand, by betting small we induce a bluff-push which we most probably can't call.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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On the other hand, by betting small we induce a bluff-push which we most probably insta-call.
(fixed)
... although I don't think this is that likely, without a very specific read that your opponent's on tilt, because it looks like he has a made hand like top pair that he thinks could be good. It just comes down to whether you think he'll call an obvious 1/3 pot value bet 3 times more often than a bluffy-looking shove on the end. And you need to bet the same amount you would on a bluff. If you're betting pot-size on the end, a thinking opponent knows their top pair only has to be good a third of the time to make a call profitable.
 
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ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Top pair rarely if ever calls down on this kind of board only to push when the board pairs. If that were the case, we would have to give him credit for a hand that beats AA IMO.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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The turn and river don't change anything really. Hands that called on the flop still beat the same range. If anything it helps you slightly because it came on the turn and river and there's no reason he should have an 8.
 
dj11

dj11

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If we could only see his hand! (sigh)

I'm guessing T5clubs might hang in at the flop. Then he adds the flush/str8 draws and ends up playing TP/FD/SD, and could account for villains actions.

You ask, T5s, WTF? As someone said, every str8 will either have a Ten or a five in it. Add in that hero's actions could easily be taken as a steal attempt, and I can see any player at times taking a chance with T5s.
 
J

jeffred1111

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Exactly what I was thinking. We're pushing out 7s, 9s, Tx, and maybe JJ (JJ-KK I see reraising PF though), and only getting called by sets, straights and full houses.

On the other hand, by betting small we induce a bluff-push which we most probably can't call.

This is 25NL, you're not getting bluff-shoved here often IMHO. We are getting a crying call from AK or AT often though.

Plus, the more I check the hand, the more I'm likely to call a raise anyway.
 
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