$25 NLHE Full Ring: TPGK + FD gets raised on flop OOP

[acky100]

Does he seem like a good regular? I think flatting with 44-66 is a mistake from UTG2 vs UTG a lot of the time, but i know most regulars at these stakes are going to be just hitting call whenever they see a raise with their pocket pairs, without even thinking who's left to act behind them.

I think if he has any sense he should know your UTG range is going to be strong and connects pretty well with a Kxx flop. I think i call his raise and try to get to showdown and avoid diamonds, i dont think he's got many pure bluffs in his range here and he shouldn't have any Ax either apart from maybe like AJs which i would of folded pre myself.

Donking diamonds sounds good if we hit, dont actually think he has many diamonds here, or he shouldn't... move up to 600nl where they play properly!

edit no.1: wow my post contradicted itself, i really dont know what we should assign his range, it all depends on if we think its weighted towards sets or diamonds!! or pure air?! Man this is a weird spot, i like going broke in weird spots just to see what they had.

edit no.2 : the more i think about it the more i dont think we can go wrong just by putting a small raise in and getting it all in.. if he has a set then he's an idiot for calling with 44 here i think and we have 9 outs, if he has a FD we're ahead... if he has air we win.

 

[WVHillbilly]

He's decent. ~3BB/100 winner at 25nl according to PTR. 2+2 poster. I'm pretty sure he's calling with all pairs.

My range UTG would be 22+/AQ+/AJs+/KQs.

 

[acky100]

Hmm the thing i dont like about this spot is that villains just don't pick on guys from UTG-UTG+1 very often at all. Do you know his raise c-bet %?

I just don't know why people would start making moves in these positions, he could easily just call you in the co vs btn and raise any number of flops and be in pretty good shape.

Folding seems ridiculously nitty though...

 

[WVHillbilly]

At work so I have access to no further stats. As for folding, it never even crossed my mind!

 

[JOEBOB69]

Nits

 

[sixpeppers]

I think people often get confused about the value of top pair and a flush draw, especially in a situation like this. Firstly, I would consider check calling the flop to induce, but bet calling has its own induces. You have top pair with second kicker and a flush draw, this means there is maybe two cards in the deck that will give you the worst hand on a future street, assuming you have the best hand now. If you don't have the best hand now then there are between 8-14 cards that can give you the best hand, but you do have the best hand most of the time. Getting the money in here is only a good idea if your opponent flats tons of suited aces and suited connectors and loves to stack draws, which in todays game just seems like a stretch. Otherwise, you should allow your opponent to bluff money off to you, possibly by check shoving turn or just check calling down. Being that this is an UTG to UTG+1 spot I think its not nearly as juicy as it seems, but there are probably still enough bluffs that will follow through on the turn to check jam. If you had say middle pair and a flush draw or bottom pair and a flush draw, i think this would be a much better spot to 3bet get in, but with top pair you have serious best hand value without improving AND you are going to improve a ton as is, so let him bluff and rake in the monies.

 

[Jurn8]

I think people often get confused about the value of top pair and a flush draw, especially in a situation like this. Firstly, I would consider check calling the flop to induce, but bet calling has its own induces. You have top pair with second kicker and a flush draw, this means there is maybe two cards in the deck that will give you the worst hand on a future street, assuming you have the best hand now. If you don't have the best hand now then there are between 8-14 cards that can give you the best hand, but you do have the best hand most of the time. Getting the money in here is only a good idea if your opponent flats tons of suited aces and suited connectors and loves to stack draws, which in todays game just seems like a stretch. Otherwise, you should allow your opponent to bluff money off to you, possibly by check shoving turn or just check calling down. Being that this is an UTG to UTG+1 spot I think its not nearly as juicy as it seems, but there are probably still enough bluffs that will follow through on the turn to check jam. If you had say middle pair and a flush draw or bottom pair and a flush draw, i think this would be a much better spot to 3bet get in, but with top pair you have serious best hand value without improving AND you are going to improve a ton as is, so let him bluff and rake in the monies.

so you want to let him bluff 2 streets then turn your hand into a bluff? c/c down is a way better line

 

[JOEBOB69]

so you want to let him bluff 2 streets then turn your hand into a bluff? c/c down is a way better line

Very doubtfull villain will bluff river if we c/c turn any how.c/Shoving the turn gets us FE vs one hand KQ.Bottom line i want to get stacks in.c/s turn gives him the chance to fire one more bluff,plus we were going to get it in any way if villain has Axd,sets,(AK i doubt but w/e)
Edit:3k post holla

 

[Deco]

Actually liking the sound of the c/c lines. Just because we're never going to get worse to call more than one street.

The mid pps which will have paid us off for one street will likely checkback and give us a street or two on the turn or river and villain gets a chance to bluff.

 

[bgomez89]

I wanted to fold but since deco said he'd rather flat than I know I must be wrong

 

[Jurn8]

Actually liking the sound of the c/c lines. Just because we're never going to get worse to call more than one street.

The mid pps which will have paid us off for one street will likely checkback and give us a street or two on the turn or river and villain gets a chance to bluff.

yeah i like the c/c line too. what do you think if we didnt have a FD or the board was rainbow without us having a backdoor flush draw

 

[Deco]

yeah i like the c/c line too. what do you think if we didnt have a FD or the board was rainbow without us having a backdoor flush draw

Without any history of him bluffing these spots I'd fold very fast

Next to no-one gets tricky here and his tight pp weighted range makes sets much more likely once he's made the call pre despite their low combos.

 

[Deco]

I wanted to fold but since deco said he'd rather flat than I know I must be wrong

We've the odds to call with our draw. We have 9 clean outs even if villains holds a set as no diamonds pair the board.

 

[sixpeppers]

so you want to let him bluff 2 streets then turn your hand into a bluff? c/c down is a way better line

We give him the chance to overvalue hands and "pot commit" with other draws or one pair type hands. You don't have to check shove check calling would be fine, its my normal line probably even. I might check shove if I thought my opponent would never 3 barrel bluff but would also not believe me and call off top pair weaker kicker.

 

[Jurn8]

We give him the chance to overvalue hands and "pot commit" with other draws or one pair type hands. You don't have to check shove check calling would be fine, its my normal line probably even. I might check shove if I thought my opponent would never 3 barrel bluff but would also not believe me and call off top pair weaker kicker.

I like the c/c line fo sure Derric, I often find myself in spots here which are good for double barrells as bluffs but feel like we only get one bet out of a midpair if we cbet here given our position and board texture

 

[sixpeppers]

so you want to let him bluff 2 streets then turn your hand into a bluff? c/c down is a way better line

Check calls down is fine as well or even a river donk lead because villain may just get confused and call with a lot of their check back hands.