This is a discussion on $200 NLHE Full Ring: Flop Nut Flush in position vs check raise within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; Playing 1/2 NLHE deepstack, with 500 max buy-in. I have the table covered. Effective stack sizes vs main villain is $600.
$200 NLHE Full Ring: Flop Nut Flush in position vs check raise
Playing 1/2 NLHE deepstack, with 500 max buy-in. I have the table covered. Effective stack sizes vs main villain is $600.
Hero: Raise: 15 (Ad 2d)
Button Calls, both Blinds fold. Villain From UTG calls, and the HJ calls. (Pot $65)
Flop is: 10D 3D 5D
Action checks to me, and I throw out $15 c-bet.
I did this because the villain from UTG and I played a pot about 15 hands earlier where I had flopped the nut flush, and I checked back, we got to the river where he made a very big bet, and I raised even bigger polarizing. He made a comment that he thought i had the nuts or nothing because of my non-action on the flop. he managed to get away from a set, not paying me off at the river.
Anyhow, the button calls my 15, and UTG check raises to 65. The HJ Folds, and I call. The button folds. (pot 210) Heads up to the turn
The villain bets 150.
This is where I am not sure I made the right play. I think for a minute or so, and decide on getting all in. I'm honestly not sure that this is the right play. Based on the action, I think villain has a set of 3s, or 5s. If I flat call, Villain has around 300 left, and we are getting in regardless of the river card. If I am right about his having a set, my thinking is getting in now, while I know I'm ahead, before the river possibly pairs the board and puts me in a hard spot facing a slightly larger than 2/3 pot bet on the river, which happens about 20% of the time.
Villain tanks, and folds face up, 5c5h, making another monster laydown against a flopped nut flush.
Originally posted by joosebuck
im so disciplined i fold my kings 1 out of every 3 times i get them
You are telling a story you have with the villain UTG. But in this hand we are in a multi way pot. Where the chances of isolating ourselves with that villain are clearly reduced. It also appears that this table is very passive and players tend to limp too often, so one way to get more value in postflop is to adapt the style of play and continue limping the blind. Ultimately, our hand is vulnerable when it achieves isolation in a MWP. As played you raised less than 2x pot, but it was enough to eliminate many hands that play well with your suited connectors. If villain folded with set of 5s here, it is a sign that these low pockets should not be in his range, after calling a raise of preflop in MWP. But the reason it was was that your size wasn't big enough to knock it out pre. So it was a nice fold from the villain OTT.
On the flop you can check behind to take advantage of your position and induce bets from the villains on the next streets.
When you raise the turn it is not credible that you do it with bluffs that have practically zero equity (overpairs) against his range of calls. So basically you have to let your villain bet on you and that he can keep all his range. You do not need protection and you have position on the villain. So in general when you are aggressive in these places, you will have given a lot of information to your rivals. In this hand the villain should call 99+ and fold everything else.
re: Poker & $200 NLHE Full Ring: Flop Nut Flush in position vs check raise
With this many limps at the table depending on the players behind me when I have a hand like A2 suited I would prefer to just limp as well and see the flop if I can. Then have the mindset to build the pot when I hit something and easily fold when the flop isnt smacking me in the face. The raise is good if you think you will almost always get all others to fold but if the table is a passive calling table I think you will get called a lot and then not necessarily know what you are going up against.
As played on the flop I like betting here when there are this many opponents and we are as strong as we are since most likely somebody has something they will want to continue with and we can build a pot and extract a street of value. In this case I think I would go bigger as with 4 total players in the hand betting 20% of pot looks like the nuts to me so I would think it may look like the nuts to the villains. I think anywhere around half give or take would be fine and you will probably get one caller at least. You get the best scenario of a raise and you made the right decision to just call.
On the turn when the villain fires into you this much they have something for sure. Based on the size and the stacks there will be under a pot sized bet left for the river if we were to call. With this and that we have position I am just calling here knowing one way or the other I can get the chips in the middle on the river. I would not be raising because I am scared of the board pairing. If it pairs it does and we can decide then what to do but raising because we are worried here does not make sense to me. Villain is probably putting us on a big overpair right now imo. Would you be raising all in here with KK or AA? I doubt it and I wouldnt be so when you do go all in here villain knows its air, flush or set (we arent raising to $15 pre with 33 and 99 seems unlikely to call the raise on the flop) and how much air are we doing this with here, none imo. So a good villain here can pretty much dechiper that we have 1010 or a flush a huge amount of the time when we raise all in. Calling there is better and yes we dont want the board to pair the river but we also want to get all the chips too and we usually have to take chances to get extra chips.
A lot of limpers and a weak ace does not equal raise to me. What does Hero do with a AJx rainbow flop?
As played Hero is in the cat bird seat. Continuation bet is good, but I would make it more, at least 1/2 pot. As played the UTG check raise looks light. There is $90 in the pot when he check raises so $15 of the $65 check raise is a call. When Hero calls there is $210 in the pot and $520 behind with two streets to go. Hero's nut flush wants to get it in.
The 9 on the turn is a brick and when Villain beats $150 with $370 (Villain bet called $15, check raise $65 and raised $150 for a total of $230) behind. I am asking myself what is the best way to get it all in. I don't worry about the 20% of the time the board pairs.
If Hero calls there is $450 in the pot. I see the problem. Perhaps instead of a shove perhaps a $300 check raise is in order. Villain needs to call $150 leaving $220 behind and a $750 pot. Calling $150 to win $600 is not the right odds and if Hero shoves on the river Villain needs to call $220 to win $970.
I really can't fault the shove because I would have called if I were Villain. LOL.
Think about just how stupid the average American is. Half the people are dumber than that, George Carlin RIP