$200 NL HE Full Ring: Live $1/$3 game

Preflop action

  • Mandatory 5bet jam

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Reasonable call

    Votes: 2 100.0%

  • Total voters
    2
J

jgav10

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Hold'em
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No Limit
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Full (8-10 seats)
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$
I am in SB with KhKd stack of ~117b (~$350)
Preflop:
UTG limps
CO raises to 10
I 3bet to 35 (i know I should have raised more)
UTG 4bets to $80 and I call (very much debated jamming, so I probably made a mistake here)

Flop: 6h6s8h
I check and UTG bets $115 and I call

Turn:3h
UTG jams and I call (my stack is ~$155 and he covers me)

River: a low heart
He shows AhQh

I am wondering which streets i misplayed and if preflop this is a mandatory 5bet jam
 
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
A limp and then cold 4-bet is an extremely unusual line, so I dont think, there is any "textbook" way to react to it. For some players it might be always AA or KK. But if you did not have that read, you obviously can not fold KK. You are also putting in more than 20% of your stack, so weather you call or jam, your mindset should clearly be, that you are going to play for stacks on anything but an A high flop. So its only a question of, which line will induce most mistakes from him.

Flop
Obviously you could still be behind to AA, but other than that, this was a really good flop for KK. So again you can never fold but either check-call or check-jam. Since you only have $155 behind, and the pot is already $390, I lean towards a check-jam and be done with the hand.

Turn
You are of course behind now, if he turned a flush, but he cant have AK of it, because you have Kh. And what other suited hands limp and then cold 4-bet from UTG? It really should not be many, and if you are behind to AA without Ah, now you actually picked up 9 more outs. So this was not entirely a bad turn card for you. Finally you are also getting almost 4:1, so you only need to win this a bit more than 20% of the time. So all in all I dont think, there is even a decision to be made here. You just call it off, say "nice hand sir" and reload.
 
Last edited:
J

jgav10

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Preflop
A limp and then cold 4-bet is an extremely unusual line, so I dont think, there is any "textbook" way to react to it. For some players it might be always AA or KK. But if you did not have that read, you obviously can not fold KK. You are also putting in more than 20% of your stack, so weather you call or jam, your mindset should clearly be, that you are going to play for stacks on anything but an A high flop. So its only a question of, which line will induce most mistakes from him.

Flop
Obviously you could still be behind to AA, but other than that, this was a really good flop for KK. So again you can never fold but either check-call or check-jam. Since you only have $155 behind, and the pot is already $390, I lean towards a check-jam and be done with the hand.

Turn
You are of course behind now, if he turned a flush, but he cant have AK of it, because you have Kh. And what other suited hands limp and then cold 4-bet from UTG? It really should not be many, and if you are behind to AA without Ah, now you actually picked up 9 more outs. So this was not entirely a bad turn card for you. Finally you are also getting almost 4:1, so you only need to win this a bit more than 20% of the time. So all in all I dont think, there is even a decision to be made here. You just call it off, say "nice hand sir" and reload.
Appreciate the analysis!
 
puzzlefish

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This is basically a cooler in slow motion. It's a very aggressive play by a flush draw that makes you pot committed by the turn, where unfortunately the flush hit.
 
3

300HPGOD

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Pre: I like just flatting pre there given its to 80 and we start with 350. If we were deeper and were playing in a super deep game then I would be more inclined to raise but in a live 1/2 or 1/3 game a 5 bet is Aces a lot so if we 5 bet jam over then I think they fold their JJ, 1010, and AK if they are doing this with those hands and also heavily ponder if not actually folding QQ (in a live 1/2 or 1/3 games I have played in I fold QQ to a 5 bet and have before) so if we are to 5 bet there I think we get all the worse hands to fold and of course AA or the other KK are not going anywhere. If we flat then we keep those hands in and also make villain think less of the chance we have AA or KK and that gives them a better opportunity of bluffing post flop thinking we can fold our JJ or whatever given they 4 bet and they have the aces ceiling when we shouldnt have them given our line.

Flop: I would just be hoping for no ace here and we get a good flop although rainbow would always be better. They bet $115 into the $270 we have left and I think you can go either way here of calling or jamming. Jamming can still create folds from the hands we dont want them to fold and raising isnt making better fold. The board does have two hearts for what its worth so thats why I think you could jam here and be fine. If this was rainbow I would try to look like I am thinking about what to do with my JJ at the table and would just call (as I think I would call even with this board and what we have) giving villain the chance to think they are good with their QQ or can get me to fold if they jam turn. I will say though, being out of position makes me more inclined to check jam this flop as if we just call then we probably arent leading turn and villain could check behind us and get a free card to make a run at a river ace or another heart if turn didnt bring one.

Turn: Again would just be thinking no heart and no ace and be trying to get this in here. I would be snap calling villain here (even though the hearts are on my mind even before seeing the end) and if they had AA or a flush then they do but they could have some other things as well but KK is too good to fold here so there is no decision in my book other than call.

We are beat on the turn but you played it well imo to get value from those hands worse than you (QQ, JJ, maybe AK thinking you are on JJ and can fold). They are still paying their price to draw with their flop bet so you cant kick yourself completely for just calling as you want them to continue betting turn and not fold. Unfortunately they got there
 
eetenor

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I am in SB with KhKd stack of ~117b (~$350)
Preflop:
UTG limps
CO raises to 10
I 3bet to 35 (i know I should have raised more)
UTG 4bets to $80 and I call (very much debated jamming, so I probably made a mistake here)

Flop: 6h6s8h
I check and UTG bets $115 and I call

Turn:3h
UTG jams and I call (my stack is ~$155 and he covers me)

River: a low heart
He shows AhQh

I am wondering which streets i misplayed and if preflop this is a mandatory 5bet jam
OMG I almost fell out of my seat when you wrote -yes I know raise more :D

So preflop 3 bet larger then 5 bet jam based on stack depth - often we want to 5 bet small but a small five bet is to 180 or 200 making the pot 400 and we would have 150 behind
so never flat always jam in this spot as we can get max value from some hands and still protect vs drawing hands
On flop stack off -at this stack depth
On turn we are all ready all-in so we never have to play this spot. If our foundation is strong then we find ourselves in fewer tricky spots post flop on turns.

The only reason to flat preflop is to see a flop without an A if we see that flop then we are all in on the flop- we still lose with this line and possibly any line but based on stack depth we never get past flop with chips left in our stack

This is advice for loose 1-3 games not all games

:unsure::geek:
 
Aballinamion

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I am in SB with KhKd stack of ~117b (~$350)
Preflop:
UTG limps
CO raises to 10
I 3bet to 35 (i know I should have raised more)
UTG 4bets to $80 and I call (very much debated jamming, so I probably made a mistake here)

Flop: 6h6s8h
I check and UTG bets $115 and I call

Turn:3h
UTG jams and I call (my stack is ~$155 and he covers me)

River: a low heart
He shows AhQh

I am wondering which streets i misplayed and if preflop this is a mandatory 5bet jam
We can only provide a precise answer if we have minimum data about villain/villains. Considering that this is a 4-bet pot, we must have information on villain to make a proper decision if we 5-bet having no info we might be under the risk of turning a monster preflop made hand into a bluff, we expect that at these stakes players to be 4-betting lighter and even with trash.
As played, we own removal and we cannot fold on later streets so nice hand and good game.
Remember that we are not simply playing KK, we are playing the psychological side of our opponent.
 
eetenor

eetenor

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We can only provide a precise answer if we have minimum data about villain/villains. Considering that this is a 4-bet pot, we must have information on villain to make a proper decision if we 5-bet having no info we might be under the risk of turning a monster preflop made hand into a bluff, we expect that at these stakes players to be 4-betting lighter and even with trash.
As played, we own removal and we cannot fold on later streets so nice hand and good game.
Remember that we are not simply playing KK, we are playing the psychological side of our opponent.
If our V is playing as you describe we cannot expect to get much value post flop without them hitting their hand in some way. Just as it happened here they hit a flush draw so we put stacks in - had they missed completely we would get no more chips. Therefore playing for stacks preflop vs a V that has a range wider than just AA even if we get folds is a perfectly fine result. Had we shoved KK and they folded AQ we would have denied 30% equity from our V. Equity denial when holding KK is a fine play preflop.



:unsure::geek:
 
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