$200 NL HE Full Ring: Call with flush draw

PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Total posts
1,319
Awards
1
Chips
32
Game
Hold'em
Game Format
No Limit
Stakes
$1/$2
Table Format
Full (8-10 seats)
VP$IP
35
PFR
35
AF
3
Currency
$
Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 35/35/3
Hello. I was asked from a friend what my first cash game live was like at a casino since he never played poker at a casino and he feels nervous. I recalled my hand and I want an input. I recall having various inputs. But never asked this forum but since im running it off my head, please forgive me for not using hand converter.

I walked into poker room at Planet Hollywood at 1/2 with $200.

I was dealt Kh Qh from mp1. Utg($230) raises to $6. Utg +1 calls. I called here. Now looking back, I was wondering if I shouldve 3betted this.
Then Cutoff 3bets to $25. Utg calls, utg+1 folds. I called. 3 players to the pot. Pot is $84.

Flop is Ah 9h 4s
UTG bets out $50. I have $175 and I flat called this. Looking back, I wouldve raised this or shoved all in.
Cutoff jams all in for $300. He has both me and utg covered. UTG calls. I called because I figured I have a nut flush draw.
Turn came out with a heart. River was blank.
I won the pot and pot was $605 after rake of $4. UTG had AJo and Cutoff had AK. Cutoff won the side pot of $50 ish? Both players were criticizing me on the table and saying how I am such a fish for calling two all ins on a draw.

Now looking back, I wouldve played differently and but I want to know what wouldve been a better play. I wouldve 3 bet preflop to $25. On the flop, I would've shoved. How would u guys have played this? Need an input on this hand.
 
pentazepam

pentazepam

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Total posts
1,493
Awards
3
SE
Chips
228
This is a very general statement but Live Players at 1/2 is often very transparent.

If someone raises from UTG they usually have a strong range. Just calling with KQs is the standard play.

When an ace hits after the raising and re-raising you can bet that a least one player has at least a strong ace. So they probably never fold. So why would you semi-bluff?

When the first player bets so much and you now have a relatively short stack and players to act behind you I think you have to fold. It would be different if you had a better position and other players had called before you.

After the call and jams, you have the odds to call since you have 33% against top pairs and 25 % against sets.
 
S

Station_Master

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2022
Total posts
1,134
Awards
1
GB
Chips
194
Preflop
Call or squeeze is fine. Against utg and utg+1 I might be more inclined to call given they should have tight ranges. Versus a fairly small 3bet I think you have to call but it's not a great spot as you will often be dominated v AK or AQ.

Flop
UTG donking is odd and probably indicative if a strong hand. With the nut flush draw you have to call given the pot odds. While a jam could be reasonable as a high equity bluff, you will be against an ace often that isn't folding. Obviously one problem is that the 3bettor hasn't acted yet and you are not closing the action but I still think call is the best play. Note if the Ace was not a heart then I think folding flop is the play.

Obviously v jam and call you have the equity needed to stack off. Fortunately you get there, but your opponents are talking nonsense to berate you. The one who played the hand really badly was UTG (should fold v 3bet, not donk and not stack off!)
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
2,476
Awards
3
BR
Chips
245
Villain Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 35/35/3
Hello. I was asked from a friend what my first cash game live was like at a casino since he never played poker at a casino and he feels nervous. I recalled my hand and I want an input. I recall having various inputs. But never asked this forum but since im running it off my head, please forgive me for not using hand converter.

I walked into poker room at Planet Hollywood at 1/2 with $200.

I was dealt Kh Qh from mp1. Utg($230) raises to $6. Utg +1 calls. I called here. Now looking back, I was wondering if I shouldve 3betted this.
Then Cutoff 3bets to $25. Utg calls, utg+1 folds. I called. 3 players to the pot. Pot is $84.

Flop is Ah 9h 4s
UTG bets out $50. I have $175 and I flat called this. Looking back, I wouldve raised this or shoved all in.
Cutoff jams all in for $300. He has both me and utg covered. UTG calls. I called because I figured I have a nut flush draw.
Turn came out with a heart. River was blank.
I won the pot and pot was $605 after rake of $4. UTG had AJo and Cutoff had AK. Cutoff won the side pot of $50 ish? Both players were criticizing me on the table and saying how I am such a fish for calling two all ins on a draw.

Now looking back, I wouldve played differently and but I want to know what wouldve been a better play. I wouldve 3 bet preflop to $25. On the flop, I would've shoved. How would u guys have played this? Need an input on this hand.
Preflop we can call and 3-bet these from time to time. The problem is that against UTG we will get a lot of action and lots of 4-bets, specially if UTG has AK or AQ or hands alike. On the flop we cannot raise yet, villain still holds better hands than us and calling allow us to pot control. I'm not sure about the action OTT, could you please describe what happened with more hand details? Thanks.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Total posts
1,319
Awards
1
Chips
32
I played for 10 minutes. This was over 10 years ago where I recalled my very first cash game session. When I sat down, this was my third hand. But first two hands, table was deep stacked, everyone had more than 100bb and it was splashy. Two hands before, pots were roughly $150 and then someone goes all in and others fold. Its why i put random vpip and pfr as 35.
I played this hand, got berated and called a fish and shamed for winning. I didnt feel comfortable playing anymore and I left. And then not only so they just criticized me, they call me a "ratholer" for leaving after making me feel uncomfortable to play.

I discussed this to my friends. One of my friends told me that I'm a fish for not staying at the table and taking advantage of those two players. But when it's your first time playing live cash game and you are berated for making one suckout, its intimidating and uncomfortable. Then later, I learned to deal with them. Its why I adviced my friend who will be playing for the first time live cash game "Play your game. If anyone berates you, just laugh it out, troll them, and say 'I be feeling lucky. Thats why i play like this, brotha.' Do NOT berate the player who wins ur chips by getting lucky. You will make that person feel uncomfortable and leave. Then you cant win your money back. I am that example of that fish."

When I hear advice from pros or experienced players "Do not berate the fish and make him feel uncomfortable. You are doing them a favor by making them realize their mistakes and they learn to improve while discussing the hand to their friends." I laugh at myself for being that fish who decides to discuss this hand and seek to learn my mistakes.

Looking back, I didnt play too terribly after all. But I do have to say, compared myself now to over 10 years ago, I got too aggressive with my semibluffs compared to when I started. I need to learn to control my wreckless semibluff aggression.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,064
Awards
1
Chips
211
Preflop
I would definitely not 3-bet (squeeze) given, that all the action is from early position, and you also have many players left to act behind you. Folding would be tight but reasonable. However in a live game you dont want to be percieved as a complete nit, so I like your decision to call. Facing the 3-bet and a call from UTG, I kind of want to fold however. Yes you are suited, but you are sandwiched in between two other players, and when you flop top pair, you are so often dominated by hands like AK, AQ or QQ-AA. But ok you call, and I guess, thats sort of fine as well.

Flop
Raising with a draw is only a good play, when we have fold equity. Here I think, its extremely unlikely, that UTG is going to donk lead for $50 and then fold for your last $125. He is not donking out into two opponents in a 3-bet pot with nothing, and whatever he has, he is almost always going to stack it off. For that reason I think, raising is really bad here. You hardly ever have the best hand right now, and in that situation you want the player behind to come along, because that gives you better pot odds. The worst possible outcome here is you jam, CO fold, and then UTG call. So the first option, I would rule out here, is raising.

Calling is also a little marginal, because if you call, and CO fold, pot will be $185, and you will only have $125 behind. This mean, its very easy for you to face a turn jam, which you will not have the odds to call off. So you almost need to view this as a 1-card draw. Which mean, you need to win around $250, when you bink the turn. With the pot already being $185 after your call, and the chance CO also comes along, its probably good enough but only just. Now CO jam, UTG also jam, and this gives you a very easy call. You are drawing to the nuts, and there is literally no combination of hands, they can have, where you are not getting the odds to put in $125 to win a pot of $600 with two more cards to come.

Table talk
As for the opponents table talk, they were just bad losers. The one, who played the worst, was UTG with his AJ. He should not call the 3-bet, he should not donk out on the flop, and he should not call it off for his entire stack, when CO raise. CO played fine and had the best hand but got outdrawn. Thats part of the game, and he should just smile and reload.
 
Full Flush Poker
Top