$200 NL HE 6-max: Slowplaying example - Would you have played it the same?

[Mr_Kk13]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$1/$2

Table Format

6-max (6 seats)

Currency

$

Although I am not sure about pre-flop action in these positions, assume that you found yourself in this place nevertheless. How would you play in a 4bet pot?

 

[Kerasuss28]

Where is the slow play ?

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

The A9 player is an aggressive donk

The AK player did fine up to the $131 bet which made absolutely zero sense when they're either crushed by someone that has a pair in the hole or hit the board or they might have the best hand with AK .

They did the aggressive donk's betting for them that made absolutely zero sense. Both are dead money.

They want to play high variance and nonsense when they don't have to when you have plenty of A9 folks all around them. Just silly.

The board is so dead there and you need them to hit it so when they bet that 131 you're hoping its AQ which would make sense and you have them but when they have AK, lol. I mean. . .lol. online poker, lol.

 

[Toruk Makto]

Embora eu não tenha certeza sobre a ação pré-flop nessas posições, suponha que você se encontrou nesta posição mesmo assim. Como você jogaria em um pote 4bet?

Check fold no Turner e river

 

[Mr_Kk13]

Where is the slow play ?

Checking back top trip 9x in a 4bet pot when your opponent is heavy with KK+ and AK and some AQ.

 

[Poker Orifice]

The A9 player is an aggressive donk

The AK player did fine up to the $131 bet which made absolutely zero sense when they're either crushed by someone that has a pair in the hole or hit the board or they might have the best hand with AK .

They did the aggressive donk's betting for them that made absolutely zero sense. Both are dead money.

They want to play high variance and nonsense when they don't have to when you have plenty of A9 folks all around them. Just silly.

The board is so dead there and you need them to hit it so when they bet that 131 you're hoping its AQ which would make sense and you have them but when they have AK, lol. I mean. . .lol. Online poker, lol.

Are you just completely joking?

Guessing you don't realize who Epiphany77 ('aggressive donk') is?
Just happens to be Charlie Carrel.
He managed to turn a $15usd deposit (Christmas Holidays/NewYears Dec.,2012) into $3,000,000.00!!!

He started off playing $1 SnG's & actually took 1st place in his very first game, 180man, winning $49.00
He moved to MTT's shortly after he began.

By mid. 2013 he was playing ~$7 avg. buyin. He also started to play a number of Sun.Million Satellites (but with Zero cashes in the Sun.Million).
He took Aug. off, didn't play much in Sept./Oct. but began to play more in Nov.2013. In mid.Nov. he got his biggest cash in the Nightly $162, 4th/324 for $4,250.00. This motivated him to immediately move up in stakes (with terrible bankroll Management) playing $100, $200 & even $1,000 buyin MTT's.

2014
First week of Jan. he was back down to playing $10-$22 buyins (MTT) but also played the $215 SundayMillion & some of the other large field, big MTT's.
Jan. 12/2014 takes 2nd place in Pokerstars Sunday Million for $201,711
And the rest is History!

2017
Just 4yrs. into playing, he played the $25,000 HighRoller WCOOP-24-H and placed 8th for $127k.
In May 2017, he took 1st place in the SCOOP Main Event $10,300 for $1,200,899.97

LIVE POKER $9.3 Million in tracked live tournament Cashes
Nov.2014 he won the GUKPT London Grand Final 1st $170,000usd

May 2015 1st EPT 25,000 Euro High Roller Grand Final Monte Carlo $1,2411,682

2016
Feb. 12/2016 3rd EPT 25,000 Euro Dublin High Roller $264,816
Feb.15/2016 1st EPT 10,000 Euro Dublin Hi Roller $185,104 (3days later only!)

May 3/2016 1st 5,000 Euro EPT Monte Carlo $197,875

Oct. 24/2016 3rd EPT 10,000 Euro Malta, St. Julians $185,761
Oct. 27/2016 7th Event #69 $63,000
Oct. 29/2016 2nd Event #80 $33,000

Nov. 20/2016 2nd Masters Classic Amsterdam $153,000

Dec. 1/2016 1st WPT partypoker Prague $41,000
Dec. 8/2016 3rd EPT Prague $171,000
Dec. 11/2016 2nd 50,000 Euro Super HiRoller $565,116

2017
Jan. 6/2017 2nd PCA Bahamas $100k Super High Roller Ev.#1 $1,191,900
Jan. 14/2017 3rd $10,000 PCA Eve. #90 $68,920
Jan. 29/2017 2nd Aussie Millions $50,000

2019
Aug. 2/2019 Triton Super High Roller Ev.#3 1st $1,601,853
Aug. 29/2019 EPT Barcelona 2nd $533,212

2020
May 7/2020 WPT Partypoker 'Online' $25k 1st $600,250

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

I don't care if its the greatest poker player in the world. Justify the play of that hand, please, thanks. To where someone can win consistently on either side. Besides "me aggressive, me win, me know, me smmmmaaart", lol.

What is the A9 putting them on ? They're raising when they're behind 90% of the time, lolol. Come on O, lol.

You play the wsop circuit or go play mixed game tourns during the summer you're going to play folks that have waaay more experience and success than that person.

Come on they got donky and hit the flop and the AK thought they could jam on them thinking that they missed the flop with the 9s on board or they're too weak to call it off, lol.

Thats all it was. Acting like its some uber sophisticated play at $1/2 table.

lol watch out its xyz, lol. That donk put in bad and hit the lottery. lollol Seriously, lol.

Watch out its a TV poker personality or someone with online success at my table we're all doomed. No, lol.

That was funny O.

 

[pentazepam]

Are you just completely joking?

Guessing you don't realize who Epiphany77 ('aggressive donk') is?
Just happens to be Charlie Carrel.
He managed to turn a $15usd deposit (Christmas Holidays/NewYears Dec.,2012) into $3,000,000.00!!!

He started off playing $1 SnG's & actually took 1st place in his very first game, 180man, winning $49.00
He moved to MTT's shortly after he began.

By mid. 2013 he was playing ~$7 avg. buyin. He also started to play a number of Sun.Million Satellites (but with Zero cashes in the Sun.Million).
He took Aug. off, didn't play much in Sept./Oct. but began to play more in Nov.2013. In mid.Nov. he got his biggest cash in the Nightly $162, 4th/324 for $4,250.00. This motivated him to immediately move up in stakes (with terrible Bankroll Management) playing $100, $200 & even $1,000 buyin MTT's.

2014
First week of Jan. he was back down to playing $10-$22 buyins (MTT) but also played the $215 SundayMillion & some of the other large field, big MTT's.
Jan. 12/2014 takes 2nd place in Pokerstars Sunday Million for $201,711
And the rest is History!

2017
Just 4yrs. into playing, he played the $25,000 HighRoller WCOOP-24-H and placed 8th for $127k.
In May 2017, he took 1st place in the SCOOP Main Event $10,300 for $1,200,899.97

LIVE POKER $9.3 Million in tracked live tournament Cashes
Nov.2014 he won the GUKPT London Grand Final 1st $170,000usd

May 2015 1st EPT 25,000 Euro High Roller Grand Final Monte Carlo $1,2411,682

2016
Feb. 12/2016 3rd EPT 25,000 Euro Dublin High Roller $264,816
Feb.15/2016 1st EPT 10,000 Euro Dublin Hi Roller $185,104 (3days later only!)

May 3/2016 1st 5,000 Euro EPT Monte Carlo $197,875

Oct. 24/2016 3rd EPT 10,000 Euro Malta, St. Julians $185,761
Oct. 27/2016 7th Event #69 $63,000
Oct. 29/2016 2nd Event #80 $33,000

Nov. 20/2016 2nd Masters Classic Amsterdam $153,000

Dec. 1/2016 1st WPT Partypoker Prague $41,000
Dec. 8/2016 3rd EPT Prague $171,000
Dec. 11/2016 2nd 50,000 Euro Super HiRoller $565,116

2017
Jan. 6/2017 2nd PCA Bahamas $100k Super High Roller Ev.#1 $1,191,900
Jan. 14/2017 3rd $10,000 PCA Eve. #90 $68,920
Jan. 29/2017 2nd Aussie Millions $50,000

2019
Aug. 2/2019 Triton Super High Roller Ev.#3 1st $1,601,853
Aug. 29/2019 EPT Barcelona 2nd $533,212

2020
May 7/2020 WPT Partypoker 'Online' $25k 1st $600,250

Hi, Charlie!

 

[Poker Orifice]

I don't care if its the greatest poker player in the world. Justify the play of that hand, please, thanks. To where someone can win consistently on either side. Besides "me aggressive, me win, me know, me smmmmaaart", lol.

What is the A9 putting them on ? They're raising when they're behind 90% of the time, lolol. Come on O, lol.

You play the WSOP circuit or go play mixed game tourns during the summer you're going to play folks that have waaay more experience and success than that person.

Come on they got donky and hit the flop and the AK thought they could jam on them thinking that they missed the flop with the 9s on board or they're too weak to call it off, lol.

Thats all it was. Acting like its some uber sophisticated play at $1/2 table.

lol watch out its xyz, lol. That donk put in bad and hit the lottery. lollol Seriously, lol.

Watch out its a TV poker personality or someone with online success at my table we're all doomed. No, lol.

That was funny O.

Relax a tad there... Did you read my post? Do you know who the player is? Because he's not any of the things you're suggesting, in your first post.. or this one.
If you weren't sitting on that table you really have no idea what was happening up to that point.

Basically you're bashing a guy who a) won the hand b) had the villain stack off & c) is a total phenom who totally crushes!

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

lol, O I'm trying to be part of the community, lol. I'm not going after anyone for their differing opinion or anything. I'm sorry if I came across that way.

I'll let someone else chime in.

 

[Dzill_230]

Согласен - причем здесь слоуплей? Действия на префлопе, на мой взгляд, все в порядке, но потом парень увидел, что он в трипсе, сыграл хорошую игру, а почему герой с АК сделал ставку (блеф??) я не понимаю. Возможно я не настолько компетентен, извините. Я также согласен, что если ты трижды звезда, и то, что я знаю твой никнейм, не означает, что я буду бояться играть против тебя в свою игру. Молодец, мне это удалось, но игра есть игра и регалии не должны меня «пугать».

 

[Mr_Kk13]

Guys, keep the peace. I post the hand for analysis and for whoever wants to share his thought process on it. I did not mean to open a discussion about Charlie Carrel. If I wanted that, I would have written his name on the description.
In general, I want to keep the channel and my posts here strictly about poker. Good luck at the tables!

 

[Station_Master]

I think this type of slow play is fairly standard in a 4bet pot with low SPR. Charlie is never folding so can wait till river to get stacks in. A9s is an ok 3bet pre as he probably plays 3bet or fold, and I guess an ok hand to call a 4bet with (though I would have folded). As for Ryan I dont really understand why he didnt just shove turn with the flush draw, rather than wait till river.

 

[Mr_Kk13]

I think this type of slow play is fairly standard in a 4bet pot with low SPR. Charlie is never folding so can wait till river to get stacks in. A9s is an ok 3bet pre as he probably plays 3bet or fold, and I guess an ok hand to call a 4bet with (though I would have folded). As for Ryan I dont really understand why he didnt just shove turn with the flush draw, rather than wait till river.

Charlie values a lot that he will have position postflop in a 4bet pot(maybe more than he should given his hand selection, at least if he calls always with A9 pre here). Yes, the slowplay is standard, you only lose to QQ now. I believe UTG does not shove the turn in order to have sufficient bluffs on the river if he does not get there, while still bein able to represent QQ and AA/KK at a frequency, because pre-flop ranges are pretty narrow.

 

[dallam]

Without knowing notes of them, UTG's open often hide a great combination, and UTG+1's 3-bet seems really strong. So the whole action may started about range fight. A9s in a 6-way is not that bad card, although calling from the position he had is not the best option since it could grow multiway without any read, so I believe that was the way of his to isolate others and getting into position.

When UTG made a 4-bet pre, it was so small that he actually had great prize to call now, and as he had the A blocker as well. Maybe getting in a great shape with a top pair over a dealt one, or just be able to control the action. Of course in long term these light 3-bets can be loosy, although at a cash table it's not always the worst thing to show several lines and cards I believe.

I mean Villain come up with a half-pot bet and it's still get called, it should not put he in the greatest shoes, should it?

 

[Mr_Kk13]

Without knowing notes of them, UTG's open often hide a great combination, and UTG+1's 3-bet seems really strong. So the whole action may started about range fight. A9s in a 6-way is not that bad card, although calling from the position he had is not the best option since it could grow multiway without any read, so I believe that was the way of his to isolate others and getting into position.

When UTG made a 4-bet pre, it was so small that he actually had great prize to call now, and as he had the A blocker as well. Maybe getting in a great shape with a top pair over a dealt one, or just be able to control the action. Of course in long term these light 3-bets can be loosy, although at a cash table it's not always the worst thing to show several lines and cards I believe.

I mean Villain come up with a half-pot bet and it's still get called, it should not put he in the greatest shoes, should it?

Charlie wants to have position postflop that's why he 3bets aggressively here, calls the 4bet because he is going to have said position in a big pot. Also, UTG wants Charlie to call because he knows he has a wider range than normal. Also, Charlie does not care about long term in the 200z pool, people already know he is very aggressive, and he does not play the stake regularly.

 

[mclay]

Slowplay is good, his hand was not afraid of almost any runouts in a 4 bet pot, so there was no point in betting, his bet would beat all the bluffs out of the pot, which eventually gave him money. The utg player made a mistake in this hand by making a 4 bet too small, giving his opponent good pot odds to call. In a 4-bet pot, out of position, AKs is very hard to play. If his 4-bet was bigger, his opponent would likely have folded preflop, if he had called, there would have been a chance of not getting the whole stack.

 

[Aballinamion]

Although I am not sure about pre-flop action in these positions, assume that you found yourself in this place nevertheless. How would you play in a 4bet pot?

I confess that when I first saw the 4-bet sizing I found it suspicious. The aggressor who 4-bets isn't deep stacked enough to put up a larger sizing like this so it seems that it clearly has some AJ+ or 99+...whatever...on the flop the aggressor also does another odd move, putting up 1/2 pot into a very dry flop...why is that? it looks like it has lost the hand. OTT it becomes clear that the aggressor has some hand that missed and wants to control pot, we dare to hint some AJ, KJ, AK...and as long as the defendor checked (trapped) it decided to jam it's missing AK OTR, just for deception and just to get called for winning hands, such as any queen.
IMO this hand was poorly played by the aggressor and well played for the defendor.
Thank you for posting!

 

[Poker Orifice]

lol, O I'm trying to be part of the community,

Yup. Sorry.

I guess I just felt strongly about that player not being a donk. (although I don't particularly like them irl.. AT ALL... 'd1ck' might be more suited than donk though).

 

[Mr_Kk13]

Slowplay is good, his hand was not afraid of almost any runouts in a 4 bet pot, so there was no point in betting, his bet would beat all the bluffs out of the pot, which eventually gave him money. The utg player made a mistake in this hand by making a 4 bet too small, giving his opponent good pot odds to call. In a 4-bet pot, out of position, AKs is very hard to play. If his 4-bet was bigger, his opponent would likely have folded preflop, if he had called, there would have been a chance of not getting the whole stack.

I believe he wants Charlie to call because he knows he has wider ranges in general, and since he shows up with that(A9), he believes he can stack him off in Ax vs. Ax situation, either by value betting 3 streets or allowing him be aggressive by checking(which I believe is true, at least at some capacity)

 

[Mr_Kk13]

I confess that when I first saw the 4-bet sizing I found it suspicious. The aggressor who 4-bets isn't deep stacked enough to put up a larger sizing like this so it seems that it clearly has some AJ+ or 99+...whatever...on the flop the aggressor also does another odd move, putting up 1/2 pot into a very dry flop...why is that? it looks like it has lost the hand. OTT it becomes clear that the aggressor has some hand that missed and wants to control pot, we dare to hint some AJ, KJ, AK...and as long as the defendor checked (trapped) it decided to jam it's missing AK OTR, just for deception and just to get called for winning hands, such as any queen.
IMO this hand was poorly played by the aggressor and well played for the defendor.
Thank you for posting!

I also believe that Epiphany77 played the hand well post-flop. As far as UTG concerned, I believe he wants to keep Charlie in the pot because he thinks he has wider ranges than normal(he is right), and can stack him in an Ax vs. Ax situation. I don't know about his cbet sizing on this board though, I would also cbet smaller if I weren't to check, something in the vicinity of 20%-25%-30%.
You are welcome mate, hope to make more regular uploads when I find the time!

 

[mclay]

I believe he wants Charlie to call because he knows he has wider ranges in general, and since he shows up with that(A9), he believes he can stack him off in Ax vs. Ax situation, either by value betting 3 streets or allowing him be aggressive by checking(which I believe is true, at least at some capacity)

I agree, it is quite possible that there was a prehistory here.