$2 NLHE Full Ring: Bluffing river and got called, good or bad bluff?

[Casey55]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 53/6/2

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 9 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $1.59 (80 bb)
UTG+1: $3.13 (157 bb)
MP: $0.71 (36 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): $1.20 (60 bb)
LP: $2.40 (120 bb)
CO: $1.09 (55 bb)
BU: $2.41 (121 bb)
SB: $0.82 (41 bb)
BB: $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP+1 with 9♦ J♦
3 players fold, Hero raises to $0.06, 2 players fold, BTN calls $0.06, 2 players fold

Flop: ($0.15) 2♥ K♠ 5♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.08, BTN calls $0.08

Turn: ($0.31) K♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, BTN calls $0.20

River: ($0.71) T♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.86 (all-in), BTN calls $0.86

Total pot: $2.43 (Rake: $0.09)

Showdown:
MP+1 (Hero) shows 9♦ J♦ (a pair of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 68%, Flop: 27%, Turn: 36%, River: 0%)

BU shows T♦ 2♦ (two pair, Kings and Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 32%, Flop: 73%, Turn: 64%, River: 100%)

BU wins $2.34

pre-flop villain can hold wide range high vpip,

I raised from mp, and BU calls , I think my range can be something like ATs+,88+, and some suited broadways. villains range looks weaker than mine, on the flop I think he could have hit a piece of it I think he can hit bottom or middle pair with much of his range, even the king sometimes, I c-bet and he calls. OTT comes another king and I pickup a flushdraw, I decide to continue the story and he calls again, So now I am thinking he has alot of middle or bottom pairs maybe A2,A5, 34, some weaker pocket pairs , Its possible he has the king but since hes a calling fish I think I can try and represent either a King, or a high pocket pair,on the river I miss my flush and go all in. He turned a T for 2pair and calls. Was it a bad bluff ? I didnt have too many hands on this player, just because they're vpip is high does that necessarily mean they are calling stations? idk I kind of feel like it was just unlucky river and my hand looked strong enough to get a fold sometimes also I thought I had fold equity versus most of his range I didnt put him on T2 but hey... just trying to work on my skills I dont bluff often.

 

[Casey55]

maybe just the wrong player type to bluff, im confused about the vpip , if its high does that mean they are calling stations or are just fish with calling pre-flop? I should probrably have chosen a different player to bluff , I thought my range looked like a K or a pocket pair both of which has his T2 beat, maybe hes just not a thinking player? idk micros are wierd probably should only bluff nits or not at all?
any other 2x probrably folding the river that didnt make 2 pair ?

 

[gustav197poker]

In preflop, your hand should bend from mp + 1, since you are approximately 50% of the time, defeated with better combinations of PF calls / raises. In addition, there are 3 players who have a better position at the table than you. Even if you were in the best table position, your range with 60bb is a standard fold.
If you want to practice, I recommend not less than 80 bb of stack. (Ideally, you familiarize yourself with 100bb, both in full ring and in 6-max.)
The texture of the board is poorly suited to turn air hands into bluff. If on the turn, you had at least one gutshot, you could catch some equity. But having the fourth flush nut, you are unlikely to receive open calls, on a paired board. So there are not many options, to raise the boat but quite the opposite.
Greetings.

 

[Casey55]

what do you mean when you use the term "bend"?.I wasn't really talking about my actual hand, I was talking about my perceived range. The range I can give off with pre-flop raise and multi-street bets.I was trying to represent AK,QK,KJs,JJ+. I was wondering what others think about the story I'm telling along with villains possible holdings, was the river bluff a good or bad spot? I was short-stack and had a tight image aswell.

 

[gustav197poker]

what do you mean when you use the term "bend"?.I wasn't really talking about my actual hand, I was talking about my perceived range. The range I can give off with pre-flop raise and multi-street bets.I was trying to represent AK,QK,KJs,JJ+. I was wondering what others think about the story I'm telling along with villains possible holdings, was the river bluff a good or bad spot? I was short-stack and had a tight image aswell.

Sorry for my bad words. I mean fold preflop.

 

[Casey55]

Sorry for my bad words. I mean fold preflop.

no worries

 

[moulan7]

Preflop I don't mind your raise. Occasionally I play such hands too but generally it is better to open with that stuff from latter positions.

Flop is standard for a cbet bluff and you only have one caller, although you are out of position.
But yeah pretty standard play.

On the turn another King drops and you have a flush draw.
I like that you continue to ''tell your story'' here.

On the river you miss. No draws made it till here and nothing to represent other than trips.
But we have someone who called us two times and maybe he holds a King who knows xD.

Now about your opponent. He 's obviously someone who plays poker occasionally and he's here to 'play'. His vpip means that he calls a lot preflop. He raises with monsters and he 3bets with AA and KK. (edit: and he is passive)
As you said, certainly this is not the type of player that we want to bluff.
Didn't he give you any tells about his type as you were playing?
How did he behave on other hands? You should have taken notes on him.

Edit: And play full stack, why 60bb? xD
Edit2: I don't think that your opponent cares about your image

 

[Casey55]

Preflop I don't mind your raise. Occasionally I play such hands too but generally it is better to open with that stuff from latter positions.

Flop is standard for a cbet bluff and you only have one caller, although you are out of position.
But yeah pretty standard play.

On the turn another King drops and you have a flush draw.
I like that you continue to ''tell your story'' here.

On the river you miss. No draws made it till here and nothing to represent other than trips.
But we have someone who called us two times and maybe he holds a King who knows xD.

Now about your opponent. He 's obviously someone who plays poker occasionally and he's here to 'play'. His vpip means that he calls a lot preflop. He raises with monsters and he 3bets with AA and KK. (edit: and he is passive)
As you said, certainly this is not the type of player that we want to bluff.
Didn't he give you any tells about his type as you were playing?
How did he behave on other hands? You should have taken notes on him.

Edit: And play full stack, why 60bb? xD
Edit2: I don't think that your opponent cares about your image

Thank you for the feedback , I understand what you're saying that makes sense. I was multi-tabling so I wasn't paying attention as much as I should have probably .SO does high VPIP usually mean calling station? normally I take notes on players but I didn't notice anything or I wasn't paying close enough attention. My mistake .

 

[moulan7]

It means that he calls the raises of other people preflop.
So yeah preflop he is a calling station. And because of the hand between the two of you, now we know that he is a calling station post flop too haha.

But yeah we can assume that he 's a bad player because of the huge gap between vpip and pfr, so he is probably a calling station too.
It makes no sense to talk about his range too, he can hold anything and he certainly doesn't care about what you may hold.
So, bad time for bluffs.

But even if you were playing against a thinking person here. Your shove at the end can be a little suspicious maybe and they may call you with 99 for example. No that your bluff was bull**** but it's better to pick more carefully the spots and make sure that you play against good thinking players.

Also if I may, I was playing 2nl for a long time and I suggest you to not bluff.
As for multitabling keep it at a number where you can observe what's going on. Because that type of players that you played this hand is the ones that you want to play against, and you want to do what you did here if you HAVE the King

 

[TheDude6622]

Just turns out that you both had the same idea. Both played speculative hands pre-flop, floated the flop hoping to get a draw, bet the draw, and bluff the river hoping they didn't catch, when they caught a pair.

Also, when they catch the pair in microstakes, they will be calling 90% of the time. If you're going to bluff in this spot, be ready for someone to call with next to nothing that could have hit.

 

[Casey55]

Just turns out that you both had the same idea. Both played speculative hands pre-flop, floated the flop hoping to get a draw, bet the draw, and bluff the river hoping they didn't catch, when they caught a pair.

Also, when they catch the pair in microstakes, they will be calling 90% of the time. If you're going to bluff in this spot, be ready for someone to call with next to nothing that could have hit.

thanks for the advice the dude, will keep that in mind.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Somewhat marginal but ok open from that position.

Flop
I dont mind your C-bet on the flop, because at that point he will have missed a lot, and most fish do actually fold to C-bets a fair amount of the time. You also have a little bit going on with backdoor draws.

Turn
You picked up a flushdraw, and often barreling is good, when you picked up equity. But not against a fish, and not on this card. If he has a K, he is probably going to raise you and blow you off your equity, and of course you could also be drawing dead to a boat. So just check and hope, he checks back or makes an undersized bet, which you can call.

River
Just give up, when you miss. Someone like this might not fold Q2 of diamonds either, so dont waste your time and money trying to ram it down his throat. Respect, that fish are there, so that you can value bet them relentlessly, and dont try to outplay them and go over their head. It does not matter, what your range is, or what his range is, because a player like this is thinking on level 1. Meaning he is only thinking about, what he has, like “I have two pair”.

 

[liuouhgkres]

I don't like your flop bet. On this board I would rather check range, because villain can have bottom sets and plenty of Kx hands. Also, your half pot sizing doesn't make sense. With this sizing all villain's A highs and double backdoors have no problem calling. You should size it up little bit.

However, as played on the turn, I like your bet, but not sizing. You size it up now, when in reality you should bet smaller on this turn, if you merge bet, or you should bet pot if you polarize to Kx hands and bluffs. Betting 66% doesn't make any sense with both ranges.

On the river you should look at blockers. You can't just randomly represent something. You want to block 22, 55, KQ, KJs and unblock diamonds. So when you bluff you want to have 2, 5, Qc, Qs, Qh (no Qd) and Jc, Jh (no Js, Jd because Ks and Kd are on the flop). Good rule of thumb is to never bluff with missed flush draw.

Let's look how many values you have and then let's pick bluffs accordingly. Let's say you want to bet pot on this river with AK, KQ, KJ (you should check imo KK and KT), 22, 55. In total it makes 30 combos of values. When you bet pot on the river you want to have 2:1 value to bluff ratio, so you need 15 bluffs. A5s and A2s no diamonds, QJcc, QJhh, QJo with no diamonds and no Js, 65s with no diamonds. In total it makes 14 combos, which is good enough. If you don't open 65s, you can bluff with Q9s hands.

With J9dd it's easy check fold.

 

[ibetmyho]

I think it's a really good bluff but unfortunately you were playing against someone who had no desire to fold.

You raise with a decent suited hand and get a dry flop which you will have an overall range advantage. You cbet as you should and get a good turn card giving you some equity and proceed to fire twice.

In this spot you have to think you are going to have Kx a fair amount as well the occasional flop sets. Then you have to consider adding some bluffs in as you don't want to be 100% value as then you would become extremely easy to play against.
I think J9s is an ideal candidate for one of the of the times we do decide to bluff.

I would say you played the hand very well and unfortunately got a pretty bad call.

 

[ZeZe2005]

the way the hand was played wasnt bad but as in the flop you are c-betting because your MP raising range is stronger here than his button calling range so if you are betting on a range advantage betting 1/3 or even 1/4 makes you more balanced and tougher to play against because ypu can bet your whole range confortably with this sizing and put him in tough spots all the time and also this way by the river the pot would be a bit smaller and you could haev more flexiblity ( your bluff gives him a bit worse odds as the pot is smaller) and in this situation maybe just check and let it go because you have nothing or if the opponent isnt a very big donkey maybe a small bet because it may look like you are going for value might be intersting

 

[encdz]

I feel like you can't bluff in 2NL. Not even 5NL. If they hit a pair, they're going to call you all the way down. They're not losing much.
I'd play the fast games really tight (snap-888, FastForward-party, zoom- PS)
suited connectors, pairs

 

[TheDev]

A river bluff wasn't necessarily a bad move but I do think going all in was. He was calling you all the way through the hand which represented him having something. I feel like in that situation with a big river bluff you should have some showdown value (Bottom pair, middling pocket pair, even an ace high) to be making that move. I wouldn't say it was a terrible play but sometimes you have to know when to cut your losses. He was playing like he had something and if he has been a calling fish, like you said, than you have to expect that if he caught anything he would probably call.