$2 NLHE 6-max: Deep Stack: bad call?

[ClarkYex]

So Im new to poker(2 weeks) and I feel I have improved a lot, but im still having problems in folding good hands in certain situations (not always in certain spots) this hand is a bit particular because I was very deep stacked (most I have ever been was 2 buyins) and I struggle a lot when I got deep.

A bit of context, I got to the current stack after a couple of big hands against a fish who always shoved all in as a bluff, so I got a good hand and took all his money.

Some hands later after winning another big pot I´m in this hand, and I think it was a bad call but I guess that probably there are situations where it can be consider a good or at least not bad call.
CO 42-20
SB 45-18

https://hand2note.com/Hands/Hand/xhnkdBU95kCdH9dJ0EieQQ==

I realized that with such a big stack probably folding would not have been a bad call, but I want your opinion.

less than 10 hands later im in this hand against CO
https://hand2note.com/Hands/Hand/FNmCww5HUkCnIQ-6X5bRnw==

who instantly (literal less than half a second) after the turn he shoved and I was 110% sure he beat me, but in the first hand im not so sure of my call, so I would like your opinion.

Thanks in advance, sorry if my English is not the best and if the post got a bit long, hope to read your answers

 

[fundiver199]

In the first hand I would fold to his 6-bet jam. He can never really be bluffing, because the other guy is already all in, so he still need to beat him at showdown. And even when he have an overplayed hand like JJ, you are still not making money.

In the other hand I would 4-bet preflop. We know from the first hand, that he is goofing around with nonsense, and that mini 3-bet can be almost anything playable. 77, 98s, KJo. Anything. You are way ahead of his range, and he kindly reopened the betting for you, so take advantage of that and put in a solid 4-bet for value.

As played raise the flop. Never slowplay on a wet board. Since I would never see the turn like this, I wont waste time to analyse it. The main point is, get the money in as fast as possible, where you are way ahead of his range. Then situations like this gross turn dont happen.

 

[Guernica1974]

fold

first hand is a clear fold - as mentioned not worth bluffing for other player, hence he must have a hand - so you are clearly beat!

second hand bet and dependingen on player / table historic 1/2 - 1/1 of pot size possible allin

if other player flush draw he must pay

 

[fundiver199]

Also about the first hand, remember that we get to see it, even if we fold. So there is not this nagging feeling, that maybe we got bluffed. And if he did in fact show up with something retarded, now we know, he is an idiot, and we can find another spot against him. Yeah we got it in slightly good here, because they were both goofballs, but there was no way to know that in advance.

 

[ClarkYex]

Great thanks to both of you for the answer, first hand was clearly a fold but my fishy me was "you have ak call", but it also was a good way of learning, probably if I wasn't on a heater I would have lost, but was a nice spot to learn for the future

Second hand im still learning to play this situations, a couple of sessions ago I wouldnt even 3bet so, thanks for the tips

 

[fundiver199]

AK can be a little bit tricky preflop. Sometimes its a stack-off, but other times its not.

 

[TheBigFinn]

I am going to disagree with the crowd. On the first hand I call the shove, knowing I am likely behind. Since Hero holds and A & K there are on 3 combos for AA & 3 for KK. everything else Hero is racing with 6 outs to TPTK as a 40/60 dog. The pot is $3.71 and Hero is calling $2.53. Almost exactly the right odds.

On the second I 3-bet pre to $0.40 JJ are best preflop and tend to lose strength as play goes on and high cards come. If Villain calls, the pot is $0.80 and she has $1.40 behind.

As played you must bet the flop. There are face cards, a flush draw and a possible straight. Make Villain pay to see the turn.

As played I read the insta-shove as weak. Hero has played his hand weakly and there is a greater than zero chance the shove is a bluff. What do you think Villain has? QQ, KK AT? Not that many KK or QQ combos, but there are a ton AK and AQ combos and there are two flush draws.

 

[ClarkYex]

I am going to disagree with the crowd. On the first hand I call the shove, knowing I am likely behind. Since Hero holds and A & K there are on 3 combos for AA & 3 for KK. everything else Hero is racing with 6 outs to TPTK as a 40/60 dog. The pot is $3.71 and Hero is calling $2.53. Almost exactly the right odds.

On the second I 3-bet pre to $0.40 JJ are best preflop and tend to lose strength as play goes on and high cards come. If Villain calls, the pot is $0.80 and she has $1.40 behind.

As played you must bet the flop. There are face cards, a flush draw and a possible straight. Make Villain pay to see the turn.

As played I read the insta-shove as weak. Hero has played his hand weakly and there is a greater than zero chance the shove is a bluff. What do you think Villain has? QQ, KK AT? Not that many KK or QQ combos, but there are a ton AK and AQ combos and there are two flush draws.

Thanks for replying, I liked your point of view for the first hand, pretty interesting never thought of the fact that I was blocking As and Ks. I have been reading a lot lately but never used it in my decision taking process.


On the second hand yeah maybe it was and AK but honestly the first hand was still wondering around my head, and thought first the insta shove, flush draw, A10, though very unlikely to 3bet have him a straight and being with such a stack I consider it wasnt worthy risking. But yeah, I agree, sometimes you have to risk and it was played wrong since preflop

Hopefully I'm still learning and trying to have better approaching in this situations

 

[fundiver199]

It is true, that AK block AA and KK. However if Villains entire range for putting in a 4-bet+ is KK, AA, then the blockers do not matter. His range is still KK, AA, so blockers only mean, we will be facing a 4-bet+ less often. This makes AK a perfect hand to 4-bet against these nitty players as a bluff, but calling off their 4-bet or 5-bet is a pretty big mistake. This is a lesson, I paid a lot to learn especially in full ring cash games up to around 10NL. At 6-max 4-bet+ ranges tend to be a bit wider, but you still don’t have to always automatically stack off AK, because “LOL blockers”.

 

[Tenek26]

If we talk about the first example, then I would think about, whether to continue the game after the villain made 4bet. At this point, you must decide whether to fold hand or continue the game. Honestly, I would fold with offsuited cards in the multi-bank, of course other opponents have a short stack, but nevertheless, they can have hands that beat you postflop. In this bank I would call only with suited cards(AKs) or with a finished hand (for set). I would fold all other hands. However, if we call, we are very much attached to the pot, and we must show our skill on post-flop, since the strategy “fit of fold” is very negative. If you are a new player, I do not recommend playing a big pot post-flop, with the exception of monsters, as experienced poker players can beat you post-flop because they are also tied to the pot and will do everything possible to pick up the pot.

 

[braveslice]

CO 42-20
SB 45-18

Is this VPIP and PFR?

 

[ClarkYex]

Is this VPIP and PFR?

Yes sorry, I should have said it[emoji23]

 

[braveslice]

Given they have so wide VPIP we have to assume they are using logic not quite standard, thus even though PFR is not that wide players like this have typically self-made strongest hand list, they forex ample typically overvalue some hands that are not quite there.

So personally, hand a) with AK would be quite standard stack of for me, even more lightly than TheBigFinn reasoned.

Hand b) I agree with the others, I probably would stack off pre with it, but whatever happens I would stack of on the flop, and I would never fold turn.

imo most important thing to learn from the hand is that against vpip 40+ players, hero really should collect lots of more information (notes). They are the most important players on the table, so our goal should be to know everything about them.