This is a discussion on $2 NLHE 6-max: 2NL QQ in BB facing UTG open and BTN 3 bet within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
UTG: 114.5 BB (43/0/0) 14 Hands
MP: 259.5 BB
CO: 200.5 BB
Flop:(33.5 BB, 3 players) 7♦ 6♣ 6♠ Hero checks, UTG bets 16 BB, fold, Hero raises to 89.5 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 73.5 BB
Figured I'd post an online hand for feedback. I feel like this hand had an interesting spot pre and on the flop. As you can see I have quite a bit of history with BTN and know him to be a winning multi tabling reg. Not crushing though, seems fairly ABC but solid. First time playing with UTG.
Pre: Facing an UTG open and a BTN 3 bet from a solid player I feel like it's too risky to put in the cold 4 bet here with no blockers. Either I take it down pre a ton against two big Aces or a big Ace and a decent pair like TT or I get 5 bet and have to fold or just flatted and have to pretty much commit stacks on the flop. I opt to cold call the 3 bet and see if UTG puts in the 4 bet. I feel like our hand is too strong to fold but too weak to 4 bet into these two players in this particular configuration.
Flop: After UTG flats I think he's capped at QQ or AK. BTN is still uncapped though and we are OOP. We get an awesome flop and opt to check / evaluate. We get the best possible result as UTG donk leads for 1/2 pot and the 3 bettor folds. There's 50 BB in the pot and UTG has 73.5 BB left. If we are raising I think a jam is best. We could make it 45-50 BB but he only will have 20 or so BB left if called. We expose ourselves to a sticky 77, 66, or a slow played KK+ but I think chances are slim he shows up with any of these.
Also, how do you guys get the status to print out automatically with PT4? I put them in manually.
I see this kind of line a lot at 2NL and my only question is how do you expect to extract value by jamming with queens over UTG's bet on the flop? If he is a donk he's exactly the type of player that will show up to this flop with garbage like J6s/Q6s/76s. If he doesn't have it, he will fold. You extract no value unless he calls with 99-JJ and you have no history to say that he would. Beware donk leads.
Thanks for your feedback. I agree that I can play this as a flat on the flop which would put the pot at about 65 BB and V would be left with slightly over a pot sized bet. Jamming a disguised hand here doesn't seem like that much of an overplay but I'll continue to let it soak in. My experience with donk leads, especially on boards like this is that they tend to be vulnerable hands. Top pair or an over pair are in that range. I realize it's only 14 hands but if he's opening UTG for the first time I would think that the chances are that 6x is rare here.
On the other side of that coin you discuss. If he does hold 99-JJ and the turn is an overcard it probably kills the action. Hero may also over fold to an A or K run out if V stays aggressive. Doesn't seem terrible to me to aggressively go after 50 BB with a range advantage and allow V to make a mistake overcalling 88-JJ or some other spaz like AKs.
4 bet 2.6x then fold pretty often to a 5 bet jam but call against agro villains. I don't think I would x/Jam QQ on this board. BTN has a strong range and may have flatted a monster to keep both players in. Donking keeps his hand looking strong. You might have to call him down depending on the run out but I don't think we're in a spot to be betting
Hi there c0rnBr34d good morning and happy holidays for you and your family! Thanks for posting another hand.
Your preflop call is good here. Many times that we try to 4bet here we might be surprised by the UTG or BTN, shoving worse hands than ours and forcing us to fold a very good value hand. So, by calling here we are not turning a pretty good value hand into a bluff. Fold is impossible unless awful moves happened before. I don't know if I like calling here with JJ, TT, and under. Which Pocket Pairs are you flatting is this situation?
I believe that jamming the flop is very reasonable against a unbalanced recreational opening from EP. These guys will make so many mistakes postflop that almost everything we do with them postflop, would be a correct move.
The only problem was the Squeezor/3bettor in the BTN, but it just run out when UTG donkeys this flop.
This Donkey is a very sicky unbalanced move from UTG, because what was it doing? Slow playing AA and KK to play 3way pot, reducing the own odds? My god, And when UTG really has AA and KK and get raised from a Regular out of position it really matters if UTG has AA or KK? Thinking logically BB's shove x donkey represent the nuts: 66, 77, 76, so if the UTG player was really solid it should be calling only with the best nuts and folding second and marginal hands.
Your move is good versus these types of players. I like it very much and I would do the same in flop textures like that. Once in a while this crazy guy will show a 77 a 66 or AA or KK, but given the possibility of V make a thousands of mistakes after we in the BB shove the flop, the move is awesome:
V is gonna call a shove here sometimes believing that BB have a lot of draws and is trying to cast UTG out of the pot. So, a recreational could be going here, by anger, because it doesn't know that this shove x donkey represents that he might decide to call with 88, 99, TT, JJ, AKs, AJs, being very weak player a A7s, even more weaker player we could find in its range some 98s. 54s. 97s, lol.
I am suspicious when I say I love the way you play, because I make it a lot at 2 NLHE versus recreational ones.
Regulars would have a real hard time calling this down with AA and KK...many would fold.
I would just 4bet against reg BTN squeeze. It makes your hand easier to play OOP.
Dont like check raise AI but I think you can still get values from JJ and maybe TT as your hand is underrepped. Don't think UTG would lead if he has 77 but he could have some random 6.
Agree with this in general but I don't think our motivation should be to make things easier. I realize flatting is not as easy OOP but I do think it helps maximize our wins and minimize our losses. This hand our 4 bet may get through given the action but if we get raised we are mostly toast and even when we get called we are often flipping or walking into a trap. I may have over estimated reg squeeze here. But the combination of the UTG open and the squeeze made it less likely our 4 bet was getting through from my perspective. Strong possibility that one of them has AK or JJ+. Our hand is not doing great against that range so flatting seems better than cold 4 balling it although it does make post flop harder OOP.
Generally, easy is good. As you play more tables you'll definitely look to simplify situations.
As played the hands you mentioned above you didn't want to call your 4 bet or 5 bet you with are still ahead, you folded out hands that would have folded pre and folded out a few that may have paid you off still like AK.
You're only behind 6 combos of AA and 6 of KK, out of 2000 something possible hand combinations.
With all the dead money you're profitable against his range assuming villain is squeezing with only AKs AKo and JJ+ and he will usually be doing so much wider. You're going to be giving up huge amounts of money on the table against hands like A5s that will 3 bet from BTN but fold to a 4 bet when an Ace comes on the flop. Or is even an open from UTG that might get sticky only having to call 7 more bbs with 23+ in the pot and a hand that can make the nuts
I strongly agree with Earndastack here. In lowlstackes you'll see almost everybody jam his AK as a 5bet from UTG wich makes it 12/16 combos so we're not that far behind if we get a jam/ call. Keep in mind we will have initiative postflop if it doesn't goes all in preflop. So you take the fold equity pre wich is a minimum of 75% vs a open and atleast 50% vs a 3bet from BU if you face tight players + the possible foldequity postflop and you have a very profitable play here.
Id go a bit lower than the recommended 2.6x because of spr so we can c-bet flop with our entire range without being committed to stack off but thats up to personal preference I guess.
Playing that way will highly increase you're bb winrate as realising our equity OOP is not easy.
KISS - Keep it Small and Simple :*
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