2 Limit Hands

[Stick66]

(Keep in mind, these hands are from 3 1/2 months ago. My style may have changed for the better since then. But to tell you the truth, I'm not sure. I'll leave the results attached since we know the problem. For future ones, I'll clip the results.)

In this hand, I was planning on raising until FP did. Not sure, but I could have been a bit stunned (fearing a higher pair) or I could have wanted others to stay in if I thought they were loose callers of 2 bets. From the flop on, I was slowplaying. FP, I immediately PM'd you the answer to your "AJ?" question since I played against one of these guys a lot and wanted to keep it private.

FullTiltPoker Game #413270017: Table McLeod - $1/$2 - Limit Hold'em - 15:10:29 ET - 2006/01/31
Seat 1: power_roach ($107)
Seat 2: Candylane77 ($37.75)
Seat 3: Junglist1 ($46.50)
Seat 4: zoieman ($20.75)
Seat 5: FPaulsson ($74)
Seat 6: MrSticker ($27)
Seat 7: M3 M5 ($37)
Seat 8: ToniMartini ($35)
Seat 9: MITBOZ ($40.50)
Candylane77 posts the small blind of $0.50
Junglist1 posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker [Jc Jd]
zoieman folds
FPaulsson raises to $2
MrSticker calls $2
M3 M5 calls $2
ToniMartini calls $2
MITBOZ folds
power_roach folds
Candylane77 folds
Junglist1 calls $1
*** FLOP *** [6h Jh 3d]
Junglist1 checks
FPaulsson bets $1
MrSticker calls $1
M3 M5 calls $1
ToniMartini calls $1
Junglist1 folds
*** TURN *** [6h Jh 3d] [As]
FPaulsson bets $2
MrSticker raises to $4
M3 M5 folds
ToniMartini folds
FPaulsson: AJ?
FPaulsson has 15 seconds left to act
FPaulsson folds
Uncalled bet of $2 returned to MrSticker
MrSticker mucks
MrSticker wins the pot ($17.75)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $18.50 | Rake $0.75
Board: [6h Jh 3d As]
Seat 1: power_roach (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Candylane77 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Junglist1 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: zoieman didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: FPaulsson folded on the Turn
Seat 6: MrSticker collected ($17.75), mucked
Seat 7: M3 M5 folded on the Turn
Seat 8: ToniMartini folded on the Turn
Seat 9: MITBOZ didn't bet (folded)

On this one, I fully feared KK. I've been burned with AK UTG a few times before, so no raise. Then I hit my King and still no raise as a KJ for him popped into my head. A bit sad.

FullTiltPoker Game #418865717: Table Serafina - $1/$2 - Limit Hold'em - 19:35:45 ET - 2006/02/03
Seat 1: MrSticker ($16.25)
Seat 2: tyler50 ($42.50)
Seat 3: WVYVW ($32.75)
Seat 4: SpartyGuy ($51.75)
Seat 5: hackinternet ($84.25)
Seat 6: one23715 ($12)
Seat 7: donb17 ($30.75)
Seat 8: FPaulsson ($58)
Seat 9: Killians8 ($41.25)
FPaulsson posts the small blind of $0.50
Killians8 posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker [Ah Kc]
MrSticker calls $1
tyler50 folds
WVYVW folds
SpartyGuy folds
hackinternet raises to $2
one23715 has 15 seconds left to act
one23715 is sitting out
one23715 has timed out
one23715 folds
donb17 folds
FPaulsson folds
Killians8 folds
MrSticker calls $1
*** FLOP *** [7s Jh 5d]
MrSticker checks
hackinternet bets $1
MrSticker calls $1
*** TURN *** [7s Jh 5d] [Ks]
MrSticker checks
hackinternet bets $2
MrSticker calls $2
*** RIVER *** [7s Jh 5d Ks] [2c]
MrSticker checks
hackinternet bets $2
MrSticker calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hackinternet shows [Ts Js] (a pair of Jacks)
MrSticker shows [Ah Kc] (a pair of Kings)
MrSticker wins the pot ($14.75) with a pair of Kings
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $15.50 | Rake $0.75
Board: [7s Jh 5d Ks 2c]
Seat 1: MrSticker showed [Ah Kc] and won ($14.75) with a pair of Kings
Seat 2: tyler50 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: WVYVW didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: SpartyGuy didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: hackinternet showed [Ts Js] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 6: one23715 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: donb17 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: FPaulsson (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: Killians8 (big blind) folded before the Flop

I know I played these passively. I'm thinking that these stakes were too big for my bankroll and at the time I feared losing too much money. Funny the power money has. I may have felt like I couldn't play like I wanted to. Kind of like fearing the bubble in a tournament.

 

[AceZWylD]

Not bad plays. Both hands I would have bet more aggressive pre flop. First hand, you played well, at least well enough to bet your opponent out of the hand. Second hand, I would have re-raised the river. He was making feeler bets, and you could have likely taken down at least another 2 dollars. Either that or he folds and you take down the same ammount.

 

[Grumbledook]

I would have folded the JJ early pos to a raise tbh.

the second hand I would have raised with AK and bet out at the flop

 

[F Paulsson]

I would have folded the JJ early pos to a raise tbh.

The early raiser is a lagtard, though, so don't give him too much credit for a hand.

Seriously though, I don't like the coldcall with JJ. Calling here is never right (even if folding may be).

On the second hand, raise preflop. Since you didn't, you're in trouble on this flop: You don't have odds to continue unimproved if you think he has a pair of jacks, so you actually need to consider folding here, getting only 6-1 in a fairly small pot. Having said that, I would almost always peel here since people continuation bet all over the place and you have a big bet in your implied odds purse to fall back on if you spike a king or an ace. But, you need to checkraise this turn - you have absolutely no reason to believe you're behind here - and like you said, it was your own problem with fearing the worst (KJ) that made you just call down. You need to get properly paid for your strong hands. It's possible that you still got the maximum from this guy, however, seeing as he bet all the way to the river, and there's a (small) risk that he would have folded to a turn checkraise.

But there is wisdom to be found here: With a proper read on this guy - saying that he will bet second pair but give up if he meets resistance - it's quite possible that you played this perfectly; but it doesn't count if you did it for the wrong reasons. This is the quintessential problem with results orientation - you have to make the right decisions for the right reasons.

This hand may just as well have played out that you raised preflop, this JTs-guy may have called PF anyway and then raised you when you cont-bet the flop (which you should call, getting 8-1), then you can checkraise him on the turn when you spike your king, and valuebet him on the river. In this not-so-far-fetched scenario, you would have made two more big bets in this pot than you did now. Of course, now I'm the one being results-oriented; you can see the dangers lurking with this kind of thinking.

Limping UTG with a strong hand is only okay if you have loose and aggressive players behind you who will raise preflop often (giving you a chance to re-raise PF), but this is usually done with KK or AA.


Fredrik

 

[ChuckTs]

Strangely passive; i would have to reraise JJ - it's an isolation hand for sure. You don't want some K9 playing donk to be let into the hand and hit his king. 3-betting will also give you more info on FPs hand.
On the flop, i'd have to say i'd raise FPs bet there with a flush and straight draw on board. Lots of people play 45s type hands for multiple bets at 1/2
with the AK hand i'd have to raise PF then continutation bet the flop.

 

[Stick66]

On the second hand, raise preflop. Since you didn't, you're in trouble on this flop: You don't have odds to continue unimproved if you think he has a pair of jacks, so you actually need to consider folding here, getting only 6-1 in a fairly small pot.

(Assuming you don't mean I thought he had pocket Jacks = a set)

$5.50 PF Pot + his $1 flop bet = $6.50 & $1 to me = 6.5-1
With AK, I have 6 outs = 3.5-1 with 2 cards to come after the flop (7-1 with 1 card to come)

Wouldn't I have odds to continue?

Everything else: I'm feeling ya. Completely right on. This helps. Thanks.

 

[F Paulsson]

(Assuming you don't mean I thought he had pocket Jacks = a set)

Right. That kind of paranoia is bordering on Hellmuthesque, though.

$5.50 PF Pot + his $1 flop bet = $6.50 & $1 to me = 6.5-1
With AK, I have 6 outs = 3.5-1 with 2 cards to come after the flop (7-1 with 1 card to come)

Wouldn't I have odds to continue?

The rake most likely ate the small blind, so it's probably 6-1 and not 6.5-1 (I hate rake), but it's true that you can almost always make up for this with implied odds (like you said, your immediate pot odds are 7-1). The effective odds are 3.5-1 with two cards to come, but you're not getting 6-1 on two cards; you're getting 8-3 (paying 3 small bets to win 8) to get to the river.

So no, the direct odds the pot is offering you are not big enough to warrant a peel, but the implied odds often do. Keep in mind, though, that you don't always have six clean outs. Some portion of the time - maybe even relatively often - your opponent will share one of your outs (e.g. a hand like KJ or AJ, or other hands that make at least three of your outs go poof), so you can't count your pot odds on the presumption that all six of them are clean (even though we now know that they are). A more conservative estimate would be to discount one or two of your outs, and look at the odds for improving with 4-5 outs (or 4.5 if you want an average). The book Small Stakes Hold 'em has a great section about this.

Returning to this particular hand (the partial outs above was more general) it's not entirely irrelevant to remember that you actually have the best hand a fairly large portion of the time. You only limped preflop, haven't said anything about the strength of your hand, and he's continuation betting this flop. There's nothing that says that he necessarily hit any portion of it, as he could easily have been raising from late position with a hand like AQ, KQ or ATs. Not knowing how aggressive he is, it's hard to gauge, but it's still worth pointing out.

Everything else: I'm feeling ya. Completely right on. This helps. Thanks.

Good, I'm glad.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

First hand: Reraise preflop, aiming to get heads up and in position.

You have to raise the flop and make people pay for any draws too, especially with five people in the hand.

Second hand: Raise turn, lead river if called, check/call river if villain 3-bets. If villain is a thinking player he won't see the K as too threatening a card, and if he's a donk then he'll happily call down with bottom pair anyway.

 

[t1riel]

Other than raise preflop, I also didn't like the cold calls postflop. Jam the pot with hands like that! Especially when you hit your set!