2$ 6 max: KTs in CO, flops mid pair. Line?

c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Jan 2, 2007
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I'm tired of seeing people post nothing but AA/top set type hands, so I figured I'd post a marginal situation for us to analyze.

I'll be posting later streets as we go, but I thought the flop & river had some debate value to them.

No reads on villain. Total unknown, and the typical tight/passive type of 2$ NL player. Probably a nit, since most players at that level that are up money just wait until they make TPGK or better, and then bet 'em for value. He doesn't seem very loose, so I'm not sure if he's smart enough to float me with middle pair. Anyways...

I had been pretty active, and I do a lot of c-betting, so if anyone flops anything, they'll probably check to me and have me bet first.

=======================================
$0.02 BB

Hero has $2
Villain has $3.20

Dealt to Hero: :kd4::10d4:
Preflop:

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.07, 2 folds, BB (Villain) calls $0.05.

Potsize = $0.15


Flop: :10s4::qs4::5h4:

Villain checks, Hero......

=======================================

Do we c-bet this flop? We have showdown value, and we'd like to play a small pot with our small hand. However, the board is drawy, and villain could be calling from the blinds with a wide range of hands.

Check or bet?
 
B

Bentheman87

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Bet of course because middle pair is a pretty good hand HU. I'd bet $.10.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Betting because it's a 'pretty good hand' doesn't help him ben. Think about the hands in his range and what reaction we'll get from them by betting or checking.

We should be betting because there are draws and because occasionally we'll get called by worse hands. We're not likely to be up against a tricky/aggro player who will ch-r with a worse ten, a draw or air, so we can feel pretty good bet-folding this flop and just reevaluating the turn if called. Against a tricky player we might want to check behind for pot control but I think this is a pretty standard bet against a micro stakes unknown.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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If we bet how likely is he to raise as a semi-bluff? I actually don't mind checking behind here. We want to keep the pot small and get to SD. The best way to do that is to take a street off. We can't check behind here every time we have middle pair but from your description of your table image now might be a good time to mix it up and check.
 
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phatjose

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If he's a typical .01/.02 player, then his calling range PF would probably be something like any 2 suited, any 2 paint, any ace, maybe any king. Having played like ~12k hands at that level on my way through, I can say that most people there have no concept of dominated hands, pot odds, or that having 2 suited cards does not automatically make you a favorite to win the hand.

That being said, I would bet here .10-.12. He will call with any straight or flush draw almost no matter what the bet size, so charge him to do so. As for fearing a semi-bluff check raise; that is just not something I came across all that often. More typical draw line would be c/c then shove when hit (or massive overbet). I also wouldn't worry too much about table image, since I highly doubt these people are actually paying attention to anything more than the two cards they were dealt.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Aight, lemme add some more info here, since I got home from work and have the hand history:

Reads on Villain & Our Image:

Your average 2$ NL player who has more than 2$ in his stack is tight, passive with stuff other than TPGK or better, and hates me running over the table. So they will randomly c/r me with air. And my image is being noticed, since I have been running over the table a bit.

Villain's Calling Range:

Villain's calling range preflop is huge. Villain's like this *do not* 3-bet AK, AQ, JJ, ect. They only 3-bet QQ+.

But what he'll call a bet with on the flop is a lot slimmer. I don't think your average villain is calling a bet with a pair of tens, they're just too passive.

So just as a shot in the dark, I'd say his flop calling range is:

1) Top pair: Q8-->AQ
2) Spade draws: 45s+, T8s+, AXs, KXs.
3) Straight draws: J9, KJ, AJ, AK. I don't think he's calling with K9 or 89.
4) Stuff that has me crushed: QT, TT, 55



Also, if we're called on the flop, then what's our plan for a blank turn? Do we fire again to charge draws, or do we play for pot control then and check behind?

Essentially what I'm trying to get at here is which street should we be looking to check behind on? The flop, turn, or river?

Betting the flop & turn gives us the max value against draws, but could leave us with really tough river decisions and a big pot.

Waiting until the turn to bet could get us drawn out on, but it controls the pot size and makes villain's calling range bigger. I think I could get a call out of a worse ten by checking the flop.

So I'm pretty torn on this one given my image & my holding.
 
Last edited:
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phatjose

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For his flop calling range, I might also include random 2 suited where one of them is a paint card (ie Q4s). Other than that c9, what you described is pretty much what I encountered as well.

I would probably double barrel the turn if it is blank and then check behind the river. If he has a queen he probably won't be betting any street, and if the draws miss he will fold to a river bet anyway. I don't see any worse hands calling us on the river if all the draws miss, but I could see them calling the turn.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Aight, fair enough. The more I think about this, the more I probably should have bet this one. Maybe I had been c/r too many times, but I decided to pot control this one.

Here's the turn, and its interesting. Oh, and we're originally slightly deeper than I thought.

=======================================
$0.02 BB

Hero has $2.24
Villain has $4.36

Dealt to Hero: :kd4::10d4:
Preflop:

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.07, 2 folds, BB (Villain) calls $0.05.

Potsize = $0.15


Flop: :10s4::qs4::5h4:

Villain checks, Hero checks

Potsize = $0.15

Turn: :10s4::qs4::5h4::ks4:

Villain checks, Hero bets $0.13, Villain calls.

Potsize = $0.41

River: :10s4::qs4::5h4::ks4::ac4:

Villain checks, Hero....
=======================================

Well, if villain didn't have a draw on the flop, they pretty much have one on the turn, and it gave me a slightly better hand in that I now beat a pair of queens. So I figured the turn was a simple bet/fold.

The river is an easy check behind, correct? Is there anything I can get value out of that hasn't had a draw complete?
 
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phatjose

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Easy check behind. Villain can't call without at least a Jack in his hand, as the draws out there are just too obvious (although it is 2NL and I've seen people call all ins post flop with all sorts of crazy crap). Pretty much the only hand in his range we are now beating is a random Qx hand that didn't fill up a draw and Q10 (but I would have expected him to donk lead Q10).
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Yeah, not much debate on the river I believe holding middle two pair on a 3-flush, 4-straight board.

I checked behind and villain showed down JhTh for the winning straight. See what I mean by passive :p
 
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