$10NL - K3 flops two pair - call river bet when flush hits?

edge-t

edge-t

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I just joined the table, $10NL bodog, bought in for the max. I haven't played with any of the opponents on the table, but there's one particularly big stack sitting two seats to my left. Waited to post the big blinds and got K3o. two limpers, and the SB completes, I checked.

Flop ($0.50)
:ah4: :kd4: :3c4:
SB checks, Hero bets $0.50, limper folds, Big stack raises to $1.50, Hero calls.

Turn ($3.50)
:qc4:
Hero bets $3.50, Big stack calls

River ($10.50)

:7c4:
Hero checks, Big stack bets $5.00, Hero ???

What hand do you put Villain on? His line has got me pretty bewildered, but I definitely put him on ace pair at least. Call? I'm only left with $4.90, Big stack has me covered.
 
A

alan1983

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Tough spot. When you led out on turn he called and didnt raise, he could have A3 for 2 pairs i guess, and was afraid u hit 2 with the queen...

That said, i think id reraise or shove the flop. And why lead turn then check river. Youd let hands like Aj-AT-A9 put you in the tough spot.

He could very likely have u beat by now, hell even the 7 couldve paired his ace but id call. you already have half your stack in it.
 
edge-t

edge-t

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Well, I checked on the river because Villain called the pot-size bet on the turn. It seems he's onto something. AK, AQ, it's out of question, he did not raise preflop. Unless he's a fancy player, I think my 2 pair was good, up till the river... where the third club fell.

That's the reason I checked on the river. I interpreted him calling instead of raising on the turn, to be chasing something straight or . Initially, I figured he hit an ace on the flop. Figured he's probably on A7-A10, probably not suited. From what I gathered from the table chat, he's loose and sucked out a few times.

The third club was the scare card for me...
 
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drtofu66

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Villain probably has Ac6c or some other bad kicker, but they way it's been played it could easily be an unsuited A9/AT hand and he's trying to shove you off your hand when you showed weakness on the river and the flush hit.

Getting 3:1 on my money with how this hand played out, I call (plus I want to see how this guy played); stacks are too short to fold. If he backdoored you, oh well-- at least you have some information on him.
 
TheRifle

TheRifle

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Definite call. You need to just check the pot odds 5$ for 15$. Villain prob has you beat but as you've got to this point it is pretty much a mandatory call, hoping villain has A+ a kicker that hasn't hit.

Hands such as K2 or A2 seem to me to be a trap when you hit two pairs on the flop and I guess is why people say don't play them. If you bet big on the flop and say the turn is a second three then you are in a very sorry state. I really do hate these type of hands as they have cost me more than any other when they have hit the flop.

I have the same prob with flushes and thinking everyone has them. if you look at the betting no way he should have a flush unless he has either Ace or King of clubs plus one other and has just lucked into it.
 
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dan_ives

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considering ur stack at this point id call but personally id of check rasied the flop hoping hes gt an ace i dont think hed of hit 2 pair on the flop
 
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drtofu66

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If you bet big on the flop and say the turn is a second three then you are in a very sorry state.

???????

Why? Unless he's got AA,KK, or A3 (which is the only reasonable hand he could have), you've got him crushed. I can't see how you'd be making a mistake going broke with a FH if you're using both of your hole cards.
 
edge-t

edge-t

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Well, I didn't voluntarily called, I was the big blind:p, and no one raised. So, hitting 2 pairs on the flop, I'd say it's mandatory to play. Still, I went broke this hand simply because Villain was chasing a straight/flush. He's holding on to AcJc. That gives him 13 outs. 3.5:1 to call. I gave him 2:1 pot odds on the turn.

I shouldn't have called the river bet though. I know I've half my stack in the pot, but in this case, reverse implied odds killed me. he needs me to call a bet of $3.20?? at the river to make it a profitable chase.

Question: Should I have called? even if I'm sure I'm beat and have half my stack in the pot, pot odds of 3:1.

Maybe I should have pushed on the turn. The thing is, I never really put him on AcJc. If it's something like A7o, A-rag club suit, I wouldn't have minded my play so much. It's the reverse implied odds that bothers me.

P.S. considering that'll I'll be pot commited if I throw in a bet of $3.50, is it a better decision to shove?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Reraise the flop. You'll get action from any ace, and you need to protect your very vulnerable hand.
 
dj11

dj11

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Since you have no reads, and are against the big stack with a decent hand, I think calling his raise is ok. It may do you well, in that you very well could have the best hand, AND, big stack learns to respect you either way.

Fold is bad news here, he will bully your stack away for sure.

Personally, I think he had nothing but the big stack.....
 
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drtofu66

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Still, I went broke this hand simply because Villain was chasing a straight/flush. He's holding on to AcJc. That gives him 13 outs. 3.5:1 to call. I gave him 2:1 pot odds on the turn.

This is Bodog. Villain wasn't folding TP, J kicker for anything. He would have called an open AI push on the flop with that. Seriously.

I shouldn't have called the river bet though. I know I've half my stack in the pot, but in this case, reverse implied odds killed me. he needs me to call a bet of $3.20?? at the river to make it a profitable chase.

Question: Should I have called? even if I'm sure I'm beat and have half my stack in the pot, pot odds of 3:1.

Maybe I should have pushed on the turn. The thing is, I never really put him on AcJc. If it's something like A7o, A-rag club suit, I wouldn't have minded my play so much. It's the reverse implied odds that bothers me.

P.S. considering that'll I'll be pot commited if I throw in a bet of $3.50, is it a better decision to shove?

Don't dwell on the river as it was played. Think about how you could have played the previous streets differently to make your river decision easier.

You might consider check-raising bottom two pair on an A high, drawless flop like this one (maybe not All-In but very hard, leaving yourself $5 behind). Look at it this way: if you lead out, the only way you make any money is if the villain has an A in which case he'll probably keep calling you down unless he has a clue and folds A2, A4-A7; and you DON'T want to let an A stay in too cheaply in case another A or runner runner pair comes on the turn/river. A pot sized bet here isn't enough to get a medium A to fold. Betting here lets 44-QQ off the hook too cheaply also. If you check, you might make some money if your villain wants to bluff that he has an A or if he has Kx or small pocket pair which you dominate anyway (remember: if money goes in with you a big favorite, you didn't play it badly). Then raise them and put them to a decision that you're willing to play for all your chips. AJ may stay in here anyway, which is great because you just won the battle of mistakes in this hand and more money went into the pot with you way ahead. Most everything else folds, but at least you got more money from them. He definitely would have bet his A had you checked. If he had a weak pair or diddly-squat, he probably folds to a CR-- but then again, he probably folds those same hands to your lead bet but then you didn't get his bluff money. Also, if you CR the flop and push your last $5 on the turn, he doesn't quite have the odds to chase his draw. This is Bodog and he probably calls anyway, but at least you made him make a mistake on every street.

If he checks behind on the flop, I want to play for a small pot once that Qc comes out and go into c/c cheap SD mode (JT is a real possibility, as is KT. I've learned that 2 pair is not a license to print money and we aren't in this hand voluntarily anyway). Maybe check-call a turn and c/c a small river bet. I can get away from the river if the pot's only $2 here and he bets big.
 
edge-t

edge-t

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Good point, with an ace on board, I'm sure there's someone on the table who'll bet out, either as a bluff or they really hold it. C/R seems like a much better play. Or at least a reraise like what most of you said. Lesson learned. It didn't seem like J10 with the way he's raising on the flop, I felt at that time, he can't be holding J10 when the queen dropped. Anyway, it's Bodog. lol.

Thanks for the replies guys.
 
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