$1000 NL HE Full Ring: Counfoundment in the BB

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Gorblimey

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110 BB effective. 98s. Two early limpers. Flop comes QQQ. No flop action. Turn is a deuce and checked around. River is an 8, Hero bets the pot next player mucks and V raises 5x the pot. No info on V. So is this a crying call or a fold? Only losing to quads or a higher pocket pair. Wondering if this would give Phil Ivey a headache.
 
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300HPGOD

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Why are we betting pot on river? I understand that is it only a limped pot so the pot is not really that large in terms of absolute $ or BBs and we would want to try to make some $ but what are we hoping calls on the river to a full pot bet? Any bet would be targeting 2x and all smaller pairs like 33-77 which I would think you would hear from on the turn or possibly sooner depending on the villains at the table, protection thoughts, etc. I dont play anywhere near these levels so that disclaimer needs to be added and there could be game theory concepts playing this high I am unaware of but to me on face value, when you bet the river for that sizing I dont think you are getting called often by the hands you are targeting that also have a hard time existing based on how the hand played out. You will mostly get folds and then an occasional big raise like this where you dont know what it means other than its polarized. Everyone at the table should think you have 8x, Qx or on a bluff so villains just calling will be rare assuming they think they can do what they did in this hand and make you fold 8x (not sure whether you folded or not). Seems odd that 1010 or other large pairs plays the hand like this but Qx logically could play this way hoping someone catches up. Villain knows that hero could think what I just wrote and then make a big bet with 73 here assuming they could be in that wide but it they could bluff with any two cards here thinking based on odds you dont have the Q.

Betting full pot on this board just creates the headaches you mention since there is such a small calling range by villains. I believe betting smaller here on the river to try to get smaller pairs to actually just call is the better way to go. Again, I dont play this high up so I could easily be missing something here.
 
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Station_Master

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I think this is just a fold.

The pot size bet is strong for 8x, so from villains point of view you could easily have a Q and so a 5x bluff would be suicidal. This is a Q almost always.
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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110 BB effective. 98s. Two early limpers. Flop comes QQQ. No flop action. Turn is a deuce and checked around. River is an 8, Hero bets the pot next player mucks and V raises 5x the pot. No info on V. So is this a crying call or a fold? Only losing to quads or a higher pocket pair. Wondering if this would give Phil Ivey a headache.
I have no idea how is to play a game of that caliber: too much high for my knowledge. Humbly speaking as a lower stakes beginner, allow me to comment as if this hand was played in minor stakes:
One question: rake structure and rakeback, what are those? If the rake is something between 3-5%, this is a clear fold spot. Lesser rake charges we are certainly in.
Could you please explain to me why Hero bets pot OTR? Yes, we are losing to quads, higher pocket pair or T9, J9, K9, A9, but we block half of these.
 
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