This is a discussion on $10 NLHE 6-max: Should I have gone broke on this hand? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; I think I played this hand very poorly and shouldn't have stacked off. I would be interested in hear what different lines you would have
The first hand you should have got away from. You face a 3 bet pre and you just called with QQ (btw, I might be in the minority but I like just calling there). Reason why I like calling is that if villain has AA or KK you will have to fold to a 5 bet which may not be easy depending on how large we size the 4 bet plus if the villain has a hand we beat like JJ or 1010 they might think we never 4 bet bluff and fold knowing we have to have at least Q plus. Obviously people 4 bet fold once in a while but probably not enough to make others consistently call us when we do it if they have a hand they think could be behind. So 4 betting folds out the hands we beat and bloats the pot against hands we are behind. Getting back to why you should have gotten away, villains range is skewed towards big pocket pairs and with a J on the flop we beat none of them now except 1010 which is the least likely of villains large pairs to 3 bet. Yes they have some other hands depending on stats like AK, AQ, occasionally 1010 and some bluffs like suited broadways and maybe ace wheels but I think in these zoom games there arent enough of those hands. More than likely you were going against 1010+ and with the J we lose to them all except 1010. I probably call flop and fold turn. As played when they raise the turn you know you are beat.
The second hand is just a disgusting cooler. Anyone that folds there would have to be researched to see if they could see their opponents cards. No way you can fold there. I will say though (this does not matter for this hand but for future hands) that I like raising the turn instead of just calling. It could be a bluff and then they will fold but they also could have a hand like 99 and if you dont raise there you have much less of a chance of getting all your chips in by the end. If they do fold there then there is also no guarantee they continue their bluff on the river. I think a small raise there is better than calling, something like a raise to 1.05 or close to that. Moot point in this specific hand but we checked the flop because we flopped the world (which I like that play) but if we do that we want to be at least somewhat aggressive on the turn to try to make the pot as large as possible.
I think I prefer a 4 bet pre but I could go either way if we have reads. What's our 4 bet range if we never have QQ? Just KK+, AK? Being OOP is a perfect excuse to put in the cold 4 bet and evaluate. As we can see in this hand we will be ahead of or flipping with more of Vs range than we are behind (16 combos of AK + 6 combos of JJ + 1 combo of QQ vs 12 combos of KK+ and that's just BTN. UTG is likely wider). In position I'd be more on board with flatting. I think this hand also shows the dangers of trapping KK+ here. It's not the worst result to take it down pre and rake free IMO.
As played I think the flop x/r is problematic in a 3 bet pot here as a cold caller. What are we repping and what are we hoping to get called by? The most troubling part is that we are x/r into a very strong UTG opening range and a BTN 3B range that is still uncapped. I think it's overly optimistic to think they both have AQ+ and we can just take it down for a min raise here 3 ways. If we thought that way then why not 4 bet pre? If we were worried about stronger hands, they are still there even though we flopped an over pair. At any rate once we get called I'm shutting down, there is essentially only a pot sized bet left and many of the hands that missed should have now folded to the x/raise.
For reasons explained above, as played after the 3 bet pre and the x/r flop that got called on a super dry board I'm checking this turn 100% of the time since there's only pretty much a pot sized bet left. If we were behind we are still behind. If V is being sticky with AK / AJs then we can play pretty perfectly on the river. Tough to be OOP though which is why I prefer the 4B pre. After we bet and get jammed on we know we are beat but we can't really fold for this price. I think the x/r on the flop doomed us as V can easily get the rest in with two small bets.
Second hand is just gross, nothing you can do about that.
On the 1st hand, I feel comfortable getting it in preflop with QQ, so would definitely 4 bet pf, and call a shove. Once that's done, losing a stack with QQ on a board with no A and no K really isn't terrible. Your overpair lost to a lower set, which is always unfortunate.
I'll start with the 2nd hand since there's not much to say except that it was a cooler like you said. No one can fold or see that coming.
As to the first one, I can't say you played it poorly preflop and postflop, but once reraised on the turn, you should've reconsidered. Villain could easily have AA,KK,QQ, JJ or TT and you definitely happen to be losing to one of them.
I also think that the outcome would've been the same had you shoved preflop. In those stakes, most player would never fold JJ.
Thanks for sharing and good luck.
re: Poker & $10 NLHE 6-max: Should I have gone broke on this hand?
Thanks for the feedback and great insights. I agree that some percentage of the time I should probably 4 bet here. It's probably weak but, I sometimes like to see if that A or K flops when facing a 3-bet and two opponents.
Looking back and this now I think that I probably should have 4-bet since I'm going to have to play out of position.