$1/2 NL live game, AA vs check raise on flop

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phatjose

Rock Star
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Oct 2, 2007
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222
This hand happened to me last night actually, and I was pretty torn as to whether or not I actually believed the check raise. Both villains were playing extremely loose, and would be calling raises with basically any 2 soooted, connectors of any kind, 2 paint cards, etc. The fact that they are tall stacked is more a commentary on the extreme horrid play by everyone else, rather than their good play (some guy went all in dark for $100ish 2 hands in a row for example).

Preflop:
UTG ($140): posts live straddle for $4
UTG+1 ($150) - calls $4
MP (Villain 1 - $600ish) - calls $4
MP2 (Villain 2 - $550) - calls $4
MP3 ($800) - folds
CO ($125) - folds
Button - (Hero $450) Hole cards: AdAh - Raises to $22
SB ($160) - folds
BB ($120) - folds
UTG - folds
UTG+1 - folds
MP1 (Villain 1) - calls
MP2 (Villain 2)- calls
Pot: $77

Flop: 2d Jc Js
Villain 1: check
Villain 2: check
Hero: Bets $50
Villain 1: folds
Villain 2: Raises to $125
Hero: ??

My thought process was with the way this guy was playing, that there were way too many jacks that would have made up hands he is calling my preflop raise with. I pretty much discounted 22 because while this guy was really loose, he actually seemed like he had some vague sense of when to release a hand when he was in a bad situation. Is this insta muck or is he doing this with other hands often enough to call/raise?
 
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bill_nj

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Feb 18, 2008
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Were they playing loose or aggressive? If they were just playing loose I'd say you were behind here and should fold. Villian 2 especially was getting like 3:1 to call preflop. Like you said, there are many hands containing a J he could have called with. If they were playing aggressive it's a tougher call. You raised preflop, on the flop after 2 checks you made a less then pot sized bet. He may feel you didn't like the flop so he is taking a stab at it. Like I said tough decision. I'm a wimp so I would probably fold and wait for an easier spot, but I think it is either fold or reraise.
 
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alan1983

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Dec 13, 2006
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Well if theyre in an aggressive mood this can very well be a move. If first villain had reraised, id fold, but 1st one folded and second guy is faced with a c-bet on a dry flop, and if hes in a playing mode with a big stack, hell make a move here.

Btw why would you discount 22?
why wouldnt he be setmining with 22?

Not that im saying he has it, but why would he play jt or qj and not 22?

If you cold call, dyou think he might get scared that you have a jack and stop a bluff if thats what it is?

Or he wont think that far and second barrel?
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
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Gross.

I played pretty much this exact hand a few weeks ago (dealt AA, short handed, in position, raised pre-flop, called by a LAG and two jacks come on the flop). Luckily the LAG was my brother and he ended up checking every street waiting for me to bet - I disappointed him every time, and he rolled over a jack for the win.

The problem here is that if the villain does have a jack, you've only got two outs to catch him up so you could be getting your money in almost drawing dead.

I think I might've checked this one behind them on the flop and see what the turn brings - if you get your miracle ace then you're still likely to get paid off if they've got a jack but otherwise, I'd be happy to see a cheap showdown in this one.

As played, I think it's pretty much shove or fold but I might lean towards the fold (painful though it would be).
 
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Bentheman87

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Sep 6, 2007
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This is a perfect flop to give a free card with AA. If you have the best hand now, you're not worried about someone drawing out on the turn, and the turn is very likely to give someone a good second best hand (assuming you have the best hand now). And you could save money by checking if someone does have a J. I'm not saying you shouldn't fold here but here are a few reasons why you should suspect he's making a play at you...First, Villian1 folded so now it's heads up, if he made this raise against more than one opponent it would represent greater strength. Second, it's good flop to bluff at, many players will bluff at paired flops. Third, he knows you bet after two checks so he might suspect you have AK or AQ and thinks he can take the pot from you. Fourth, they are aggressive so you can't give him quite as much credit than if he had a tight image. And one more thing, he might have a medium pair like 33-88 and think he has the best hand here.
 
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soonerdel

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Sep 14, 2007
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2-2 is a deffinate possibility since he may be set mining.. A-J would be horrid beat but also possible or he could be in with K-K thinking his over pair was good...
 
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phatjose

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Oct 2, 2007
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222
I ended up folding this hand after thinking about it for quite awhile. The thought that he was making a play at me did enter my head, and almost convinced me to shove, but I had not seen him run any bluffs since I had been at the table with him (about 1.5 - 2 hours at that point), and he had not been overly aggressive post flop.

After going through some self analysis of my play from Saturday night, I found myself horribly misplaying some WA/WB situations (which I would think this classifies as). Although I will be the first to admit I have been playing horribly in general lately, and I even mentioned as much in the $1 cheapament Monday.
 
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