Pot Odds and Chipstack Size

While I was donking hard on ultimate bet after winning the cardschat freeroll, I happened to ask myself this question. I got extremely lucky and sucked out but I believe this can be considered good question. When there's two people who all in, you're always getting better than 2 to 1 to call but you have to risk your whole tournament or chips, it would not be good call. How do you calculate this?

I will bring up a scenario which did happen.

Flop was 4 6 9 all clubs. I have pocket nines. One person push all in with 9h and Ac. Other person already flopped Queen high flush. Both players shoved all-in 4 dollars each since it was fight between big stacks. I had about 4 dollars behind me too. I'm getting 2:1 to call but it was for my entire chipstack. Is it still appropriate to call even when you know you're behind just because you're getting right odds? I knew clearly that I'm behind and one of them probably have flopped a flush since there are two people. I happened to call and suck out because board paired but I kinda thought to myself. What if I was in World Series Main Event. Blinds are at 50/100 and everybody has 30,000 chips and two people moved all-in in front of you when initial pot before person who moved all-in was about 1000 chips. crazy guy moves all-in 30k into pot of 1k. There's a person who calls. You're getting 2:1 to call. But if it's for your whole tournament, I don't think you should call if you're very certain that you're behind. How do you determine when to call and when not to call regardless of pot odds because you're always getting 2:1 but I'm sure there's a way to calculate if it's a good or bad call by comparing it to chipstack size. Can anybody explain?

I get away from the hand as quick as possible in your scenario. Why risk your entire tournament that early?

In big tournaments like that, the common agreement is to play tight early and loosen up as the blinds get big.

the odds of making a boat of better by the river is 2:1. which makes your call exactly break even if you know your never ahead. but you cant really know that. there too many hands that get allin here you beat to fold. 2prs, under sets, flush draws, str8 draws(w/flush draws) even over pairs get in here. so definately think the call is +EV.

There's a great example of the difference between cash games and tournies. In a cash game, this is a call because you are either way ahead or have outs to take the pot.
In a tourney, you can't rebuy so you may want to wait for a better spot to get your chips in the middle. You can't win the tournament on this hand but you can certainly be knocked out of it.

dufferdevon said:

There's a great example of the difference between cash games and tournies. In a cash game, this is a call because you are either way ahead or have outs to take the pot.
In a tourney, you can't rebuy so you may want to wait for a better spot to get your chips in the middle. You can't win the tournament on this hand but you can certainly be knocked out of it.

Click to expand...

+1

Why risk your tourney life so early on a gamble to win if the board pairs? Too risky IMO....
I know some people who would call in that situation of a tourney because they have the that thoery that they want to generate a big chip stack early to dominate....

I came up with an example where you are getting right odds to call but it doesn't justify for you to call. Let's assume we're all playing sng. First hand, 5 people shove all-in in front of you and you have pocket 2s. You're getting right price to call since you're getting 5:1 to call. and you're chance of winning would be 5:1. But it doesn't mean you should call with pocket 2s since it's for your whole tournament life. I'm sure there's a way to determine whether it's call or fold by comparing odds with chipstack size. Is there a way to calculate this? I'll post a pokerstove attachment to illustrate my example.



If I have 20,000 chips while everyone has 1000 chips, then I can call with pocket 2s but if everyone has the same amount of chips including myself and it's for my whole tournament, it'll be fold. I'm guessing there's a way to calculate pot odds, winning odds while comparing it to chipstack. Can anyone explain of how to take chipstack size into consideration?

dufferdevon said:

There's a great example of the difference between cash games and tournies. In a cash game, this is a call because you are either way ahead or have outs to take the pot.
In a tourney, you can't rebuy so you may want to wait for a better spot to get your chips in the middle. You can't win the tournament on this hand but you can certainly be knocked out of it.

Click to expand...

ukaliks said:

+1

Why risk your tourney life so early on a gamble to win if the board pairs? Too risky IMO....
I know some people who would call in that situation of a tourney because they have the that thoery that they want to generate a big chip stack early to dominate....

Click to expand...

I disagree as long as you're playing with proper BRM there is always another tourney getting ready to start. Make plays that are +EV and over the long run (which is really LONG in the case of MTTs) it will work out. In this case, no mention was made of the bubble or payout jump so I have to assume that calling with odds is always correct here.