Originally Posted by HypeHillbilly
OK so last night was rank 11th out of 247 people with 26k chips
I am in Button Get dealt KK i know not to get crazy with them But u always want to raise i think blinds werent that big maybe 75 150 or so
but MP raises 1500 i simply reriase to 3k it goes back to him he calls we are
Heads Up Also his chip count is around 23k so i have him in chips so this can get crazy
...When MP raised 10x the blinds, what hand range did you put him on for raising so much? What were you hoping your min 3bet would accomplish? Honestly, someone who is raising 10x BB is not going to fold to a min raise and unless you're hoping he'd 4bet shove into you, you're just bloating the pot and making it easy for them to call.
Flop 9 8 6 rainbow
so theres no flush only striaght but i know he doesnt have it becuase of how he bet preflop i put him on pair of Qs Im not scared yet its his turn to bet
He bets 1/2 pot which is 3k now i simply put a min raise on him so 3k more he calls
...What factors allowed you to put him on QQ? Because that's a very specific hand. Based on how he's played before at the table, is he 10x BB raising preflop with QQ often? Is he just calling a min-raise with QQ preflop or would he have 4bet with it?
With his preflop raise so big, I might've put him on mid-pairs and thought that he just wants to take the pot uncontested instead of seeing a board of over cards and be forced to fold. Of course, he could be doing this with a hand like 1010-JJ, AK and wants to make it expensive to play instead letting someone call for a standard 3-4x raise and getting lucky with a QJ, A9s, etc type hand. QQ+, I expect a 4bet most of the time. So, possible range would be 55-JJ, maybe AK.
On the flop, I agree that it's very unlikely he's flopped a straight, but it's still a very scary board. Especially if he's put on a hand range of 55-JJ; if he doesn't have a set, straight draws are very possible if he's holding a mid pair.
He makes a standard c-bet for half pot and he potentially has a lot of outs if he's behind. Since you put him on QQ, you're obviously way ahead and your min-raise is fine if want to bloat the pot and extract as much money as possible from him. Again, though, I ask how you put him on such a specific hand? Also, if you had considered he might've had a mid-pair with straight draw possibilities, how would you have played it differently?
Turn is 10 now pot is around 13-14k half are stacks
im worried about pk 10s now but he checks
so now I shove all in
...This is really confusing to me. First you put him on QQ and now you put him on 1010. Lets just say the range you put him on is 1010-QQ. What's even more confusing, though, is if you put him on 1010 after a turn is a 10, and he checks...why are shoving into him? If you think you're behind at this point, what does shoving here accomplish? Even if he doesn't have 1010, the turn completes a lot of straights and opens a lot more straight draw possibilities. So, you're probably just slightly ahead or way behind at this point.
and calls shows JJs
im relived at first
then ofc flop comes and u guessed it a 7
he hits the str8
...So, your read of QQ isn't that far off but given that board, his hand, and how everything played out, there is no way he is folding to a shove with JJ on the turn.
I think the only other way i could of played this hand is shoved after flop
Even then He might of called but it would of been the best play there.
...Actually, that would've been a terrible play. Shoving 133BBs into a 40BB pot? You're only beating 1010-QQ, slightly ahead a mid pair with straight draws, or way behind a made set or the very unlikely made straight. All very possible hands.
A better play would have been to raise a lot more on the flop and then re-evaluate opponents action. If opponent 4bets /shoves, then I'm shoving/calling here because I'm a lot more confident in the strength of my hand now. It's very unlikely he's 4betting with a made hand or something as strong as set because that would kill the action if you had missed. So, now you're only behind AA if he's being tricky with it and t's very unlikely he has KK, so 1010-QQ is still possible and you're way ahead, and mid-pair + straight draws are possible and you're ahead of those as well.
However, you min raised and gave him a good price to call with a whole range of hands and to let him see a very scary turn for cheap. On the turn, shoving was definitely bad. Again, you're way behind or just slightly ahead a lot of draws. I would've checked behind and gone to the river. On the river, it's a very easy check behind or fold situation. I'm almost never calling a bet here unless it's something ridiculously low like 300 into a 12K pot. Other wise, it's almost always a value bet and you aren't beating a lot of hands here.
it is so easy to lose with KK and QQ by getting to commited or overplaying them So Just be very careful playing these when big stack
...Very true, but you definitely made some questionable plays like min-raising and giving opponent a good price to stick around on a scary flop, then shoving into a scary turn. You definitely could've played it differently and probably would've lost, but you would still be in the tournament