New term pot odds

Ok, look first and foremost, I know, I play alot, but, believe it or not, I have no clue how to properlly calculate pot odds.

I'll tell you as much as I know, and I'll let the rest of you handle the rest for me, because this shit is driving my head in circles.

IF we hold an O/E/SD, (Eg) 56 in our hand, flop is 78A rainbow, this means we got to either hit a 9 or a 4 there-fore giving us 8 outs, ok, if the odds of hitting this are about 32%, then that means out of 100 times this happens, we only win about 32% of the time (correct)?

same situation, but in a cash game, if the pot is $80 and guy bets $20 then that means it would cost us 20 to win $120, correct? 80+20+20=120, breaking this down gives us 1:6, hence forth my problem, wtf is 1:6, I know it's a ratio, but my problem is coverting this ratio into a percentage.

Next question when calculating odds do we take into consideration other ppl's cards? What I mean is lets say it's FR, 9 to a table, if everyone gets 2 cards in a 52 card game then that would mean 18 cards are gone,there-fore the remaining cards in the deck is 52-18=34, now take the same example above that gines us 8 cards to hit out of 30cards correct? (I've just taken the burn and fkop also, hence 30), now this is where it really confuses me 8/30 gives us 3.75:1 (what this number is I have no clue? do this backwards, and you come up with 26.6%, as you can see there's multiple questions in the 2nd one but what kills me is the reversal of odds, why is it the bottom end came up with 26.6%, and what is the 3.75 number, plz correct me, because the only odds of calculation I know is the top percentage wise, and that's been killing me at the tables

no it woudl cost $20 to win $100 therefore your pot odds are 100:20 or 5:1.

You don't have to take into consideratino other ppl's cards...any cards that aren't in yoru hand or on the board are "unknown" and it doesn't matter if they are in the deck or previously folded.

To convert x:x you just take the ratio. So 2:1 is 66.6% vs 33.3% and 4:1 is 80% to 20% etc etc. So 1:6 would be 14.3%:85.7%. To take the ratio you just take any given one of the numbers and divide it by the total of the numbers (so 2:1 is 2/3, which means that the "2" has 66.7% to win).

Its 20 to win 20+80, 5 to 1. You don't count money you haven'y put in yet...and its not 30+ cards left in the deck, if you don't know what the cards are they are the deck.
Instead of ratios, you could stick to percentages, so $20 would be in $120 total pot and you would need 1/6 (~17%) equity to win the pot...but this is on the next card or if its all in otherwise its implied odds and more complicated.

Ok, not much of your analysis is correct here so good you asked.

First of all, you cant count any cards you do not know, the folded cards could be anything so you cant count that.

As for pot odds, your compare your equity against what your odds are. In your betting situation you would have to put in 20 to win 100(80+20), you cannot count the 20 you would put in because you dont put it in unless you called. so you would be getting 5:1(100/20) so you need 4:1(25%) to call. However, you have to keep in mind that there are multiple streets, so if this is all in then its a call because you are getting more than 25% and its a ev+ play on pot odds alone. Since there are 2 streets, you will probably face another bet on the turn so pot odds alone may not be enough. However, if you do hit you will probably will more money(implied odds) so calling is definetely correct here.

Here is a good article on Pot Odds and specifically a section on conversion from ratios to percentages:
Pot odds - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The main trick to remember is to add the ratio and divede 100 by that number. 4:1 is 100/5 is 20% (or 1/5 which is .2)

Question 2. No. You only consider cards KNOWN. So your unknown set shrinks by ONE card at each street making the % just a teeny bit bigger each time.

This is standard for statistics.

cAPS

feitr said:

no it woudl cost $20 to win $100 therefore your pot odds are 100:20 or 5:1.

You don't have to take into consideratino other ppl's cards...any cards that aren't in yoru hand or on the board are "unknown" and it doesn't matter if they are in the deck or previously folded.

To convert x:x you just take the ratio. So 2:1 is 66.6% vs 33.3% and 4:1 is 80% to 20% etc etc. So 1:6 would be 14.3%:85.7%. To take the ratio you just take any given one of the numbers and divide it by the total of the numbers (so 2:1 is 2/3, which means that the "2" has 66.7% to win).

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If I thought I was bewilderd earlier, boy was I wrong , you must speak in tongues, cuz I got a headach, Ty for trying to help, but I still got no clue

naruto_miu said:

Ok, look first and foremost, I know, I play alot, but, believe it or not, I have no clue how to properlly calculate pot odds.

I'll tell you as much as I know, and I'll let the rest of you handle the rest for me, because this shit is driving my head in circles.

IF we hold an O/E/SD, (Eg) 56 in our hand, flop is 78A rainbow, this means we got to either hit a 9 or a 4 there-fore giving us 8 outs, ok, if the odds of hitting this are about 32%, then that means out of 100 times this happens, we only win about 32% of the time (correct)?

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Correct, assuming you see both the turn and the river. But this is your drawing odds, not your pot odds. If your pot odds are greater than your drawing odds then this is said to have a positive EV or expected value.
There's also implied odds and expected odds to consider, but let's save this for later.

naruto_miu said:

same situation, but in a cash game, if the pot is $80 and guy bets $20 then that means it would cost us 20 to win $120, correct? 80+20+20=120, breaking this down gives us 1:6, hence forth my problem, wtf is 1:6, I know it's a ratio, but my problem is coverting this ratio into a percentage.

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Well, no. Looks like you're including your $20 call into the pot. The pot is $100 not $120. Assuming you're on a draw, it will cost you $20 to win $100 so your POT ODDS are 5:1 read 5 TO 1. This is a RATIO. to get the fraction you would add the 2 numbers together and divide the smaller by the larger. In the ratio 5:1 there are a total of 6 parts. so 5:1 = 5/6 = .83 or 83%.

If either he or you is all-in, then that is all you can win. If you were on a str8 draw or a flush draw, that's about what you'd need to call in a cash game with only 1 card to come. With both the turn and the river to come you'd be getting more than enough odds to call.

naruto_miu said:

Next question when calculating odds do we take into consideration other ppl's cards? What I mean is lets say it's FR, 9 to a table, if everyone gets 2 cards in a 52 card game then that would mean 18 cards are gone,there-fore the remaining cards in the deck is 52-18=34, now take the same example above that gines us 8 cards to hit out of 30cards correct? (I've just taken the burn and fkop also, hence 30), now this is where it really confuses me 8/30 gives us 3.75:1 (what this number is I have no clue? do this backwards, and you come up with 26.6%, as you can see there's multiple questions in the 2nd one but what kills me is the reversal of odds, why is it the bottom end came up with 26.6%, and what is the 3.75 number, plz correct me, because the only odds of calculation I know is the top percentage wise, and that's been killing me at the tables

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No, you DO NOT take other peoples cards into account. You must calculate the odds on the number of UNSEEN cards, not the number remaining in the deck. Think of all the unseen cards, dealt or not as a bowl of M&M's. Each the entire bowl is the entire deck, minus your hole cards and the board. Let's say the green ones represent the cards you need to improve your hand. Now lets say the proportion of green M&M's to all other colors is 4:1 and the bowl is perfectly mixed (I'm not exactly sure how many different colors there are, but humor me). If you have 5 guests and give them each a handful, clearly the number of M&M's in the bowl will be less, but the proportion will ALWAYS be 4:1. This is why it doesn't matter that some of your out cards may be unavailable. Your odds of drawing the cards you need remain the same.

In fact, if you could somehow see everyones hole cards and sa saw that one of your OUTS had been dealt to another player, your odds of drawing one of the remaining OUTS could actually improve. If your looking for any diamond for example and there are 9 left out of 46 unseen cards your drawing odds (not pot odds) would be 9:37 or about 24%. If you could see that one of the 8 other players had mucked a diamond, you would have to remove that card as a possibility, but you would also remove the 15 other non diamonds from the solution. SO your odds of catching an OUT would now be 8:22 or about 36%. This actually happens all the time in STUD.

I hope this was readble. My kids are all over me for story time so I gota run. Think I'll read them chapter 2 of Multivariate Statistics 5th edition.

naruto_miu said:

If I thought I was bewilderd earlier, boy was I wrong , you must speak in tongues, cuz I got a headach, Ty for trying to help, but I still got no clue

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Calculating pot odds 101:

Take the total amount of money in the pot. Take the amount of money you must call. Set up a ratio between the two of these. So if there is $100 in the pot, and somebody bets $60 into the pot there is $160 in the pot ($100 + villain's bet of $60) and it costs you $60 to call. Therefore, the ratio is $60:$160. Reduce this and you have 3:8 pot odds to call (60:160 reduces to 6:16 which becomes 3:8...just makes it "easier" to look at). But in practice, you'd just round this off to 3:1 because it is a close enough approx. Therefore, you'd want >1:3 equity in the pot vs a person's range (so greater than 25%) in order to have odds to make the call. If there are streets to act, then your pot odds don't have to equal your equity odds if you have implied odds on a later street to make up for this.

To convert something like 2:1 to a % value, you just take the "2" and divide it by 3 (2+1). This gives you 67%. To convert 4:1, you take the "4" and divide it by 5 (4 +1) which gives you 80%.

As simple as i can make it sorry. The math is quite basic, but if you don't understand these ideas i'd try to learn some simple probability/fraction/arithmetic concepts.

feitr said:

Calculating pot odds 101:

Take the total amount of money in the pot. Take the amount of money you must call. Set up a ratio between the two of these. So if there is $100 in the pot, and somebody bets $60 into the pot there is $160 in the pot ($100 + villain's bet of $60) and it costs you $60 to call. Therefore, the ratio is $60:$160. Reduce this and you have 3:8 pot odds to call (60:160 reduces to 6:16 which becomes 3:8...just makes it "easier" to look at). But in practice, you'd just round this off to 3:1 because it is a close enough approx. Therefore, you'd want >1:3 equity in the pot vs a person's range (so greater than 25%) in order to have odds to make the call. If there are streets to act, then your pot odds don't have to equal your equity odds if you have implied odds on a later street to make up for this.

To convert something like 2:1 to a % value, you just take the "2" and divide it by 3 (2+1). This gives you 67%. To convert 4:1, you take the "4" and divide it by 5 (4 +1) which gives you 80%.

As simple as i can make it sorry. The math is quite basic, but if you don't understand these ideas i'd try to learn some simple probability/fraction/arithmetic concepts.

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No I figured it out at last, ty, what I was having a hard time figuring out was, lets say 2:1, where you got 66.%, but since you broke it down, plus everyone else, Now I got it, so ty for re-re explainning everything to me, and also to eveyone who helped me out

naruto_miu said:

Ok, look first and foremost, I know, I play alot, but, believe it or not, I have no clue how to properlly calculate pot odds.

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I believe it.

I look at it like this: you're 2-1 against making your hand but getting 6-1 to call......call. If you were 3-1 against making your hand and only getting 2-1 to call.....you fold.

feitr said:

Calculating pot odds 101:

..... Therefore, you'd want >1:3 equity in the pot vs a person's range (so greater than 25%) in order to have odds to make the call........

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My problem isn't so much the math, but understanding how you apply it here.

The 2.67/1 odds (I whipped out my calculator at the table and made everyone wait) are my pot odds to make this call (the $60 call with the $160 pot).

So I want greater than (rounding to) 3:1 odds that I will hit my hand. And this is hit a hand that beats what I figure the villian has? (that persons range)

The post flop two way straight draw example is 8 outs of 47 unseen cards is 8/47 or 5.8:1?

So that 5.8:1 is what you compare to the 3:1 pot odds to make your decision to call?

But that's eight outs twice, and now I have no idea.

TheNoob said:

My problem isn't so much the math, but understanding how you apply it here.

The 2.67/1 odds (I whipped out my calculator at the table and made everyone wait) are my pot odds to make this call (the $60 call with the $160 pot).

.

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In cash games, pot odds can rarely be separated from implied odds. The exception is when you are figuring out whether or not to call a river bet and you can compare your pot odds to the odds that you are ahead of villain's range (so maybe you have a bluff catcher and if you are getting 3:1 pot odds to make the call villain has to be bluffing > 1 in 4 times for it to be profitable).

So I want greater than (rounding to) 3:1 odds that I will hit my hand. And this is hit a hand that beats what I figure the villian has? (that persons range)

The post flop two way straight draw example is 8 outs of 47 unseen cards is 8/47 or 5.8:1?

So that 5.8:1 is what you compare to the 3:1 pot odds to make your decision to call?

But that's eight outs twice, and now I have no idea

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Say you have 3:1 pot odds to call a oesd on the flop. Your 4.8:1 (not 5.8:1) is the odds of hitting your hand from flop to turn. It now depends on what you think villain will do on the turn/your implied odds for the hand (related to the strength of villain's range). If you aren't likely to face a turn bet then you do have odds (even in the absence of any implied odds) to draw to your hand. You will have a 2:1 chance of hitting your straight by the river, giving 3:1 pot odds on the flop.

Let's say that villain will bet the turn, but that villain probably has a strong holding where you have implied odds. Say villain bets $40 into a $60 pot on the flop. You have a flush draw and so have 1:4 chance of hitting your hand from flop to turn. You are given 2:5 pot odds to make the call. To make the flop call profitable, you only need to gain another >$60 total in the hand (because you would have now invested $40 to make $60 + $40 + $60 = $160 and $40:$160 is the 1:4 you needed. If villain has any sort of hand this shouldn't be hard seeing as the pot after the flop would be $140 so this isn't even a half pot sized bet.

If you missed on the turn, you'd have to reevaluate and figure out whether or not the pot odds you are getting on the turn, when combined with the amount of value you could get from villain on the river, makes it a +EV play.

Generally, you need to compare your pot odds with your hand odds
(odds of you making the hand). Your hand odds must be LESS than the
pot odds to call the bet.

Figuring your hand odds after flop:
outs x 4
divide that into 100
take away 1

eg. >>>> 5 outs x 4 = 20, divided into 100 = 5, minus 1 = 4 (4:1)

In the example above your odds of making the hand by the river are 4:1
So if your pot odds are higher than 4:1, you may want to call the bet!

(same formula after the turn, just multilply your outs by 2 instead of 4)

A quick shortcut to figuring outs is to remember the "984" rule:

9 outs with a 4 flush draw
8 outs with an open end straight draw
4 outs with and inside straight draw

then just multilpy those by 4 or 2