to hud or not to hud

I HAVE BEEN PLAYING ONLINE FOR ABOUT 5YRS OR SO NOW AND HAVE ALWAYS HAD THE BELIEF THAT USING A HUD IS AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE THERE FOR CHEATING IN MY BOOK.
UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME AT THE MINUTE LIFE IS ON HOLD AS MONEY IS TIGHT
online poker IS STILL BRINGING IN SOME MONEY BUT I HAVE A FRIEND WHO IS PLAYING FOR A LIVING AND IS USING A HUD (POKER EDGE I BELIEVE) AND HES BRINGING IN A RESPECTABLE WAGE HE ALSO HAS A SPONSOR WHO KEEPS OFFERING TO TAKE ME ON, ON A THREE MONTH GUARANTEED TRIAL.
NOW I KNOW I AM A BETTER PLAYER LIVE THAN MY FRIEND AS I REGULARLY CRUSH HIM IN LIVE GAMES SO I BELIEVE THE HUD IS GIVING HIM A BIG ADVANTAGE ONLINE.
SO I HAVE 3 QUESTIONS
1ST DO I ABANDON MY MORALS AND GET A HUD/POKER TRACKER IF SO WHICH ONE IS THE BEST
2ND SHOULD I LOSE THE POORLY PAID JOB IM AT AND TAKE THE SPONSORSHIP DEAL ITS A SWEET DEAL BUT A BIG RISK
3RD WHATS YOUR VIEW ON THE MORALITY SIDE OF USING A HUD

HUDs do not explain situations well. They don't reflect the details of the hands, and only give generalities. They work well when you are playing a similar game (like ring games where everybody has is deep and the blinds do not increase) and are multi-tabling, so you don't see every hand played.

The HUD only gives you numbers. For example, we can see that someone opens 10% of the time and bets in stealing position 20% of the time. It's up to you to determine what that means.
And if you haven't played him a lot, you won't have a lot of stats on him so those percentages will be skewed. For example, let's say that on Monday "Bubba" has position on a weak player who is easily chased off hands, and he exploits this all game long. Then on Tuesday you sit with "Bubba" again, and notice that he 3-bets a lot, so when he 3-bets you you decide that he's full of it and shove back. Well... those aggressive stats were based on yesterday's situation with someone else and he would *not* act that way against you, so you lost your stack to his Kings.

Basically, the HUD only points you in the right direction. You have to know how to interpret the numbers and apply them to your situation. It's not perfect, but when you play 10 tables at a time, and thousands of players a week, it's a good way of keeping track of generally how people act.

if you are going to take that sposorship i say you definitely need to get one considering the risk your taking on by leaving your job. but if you just want to play casually then stick to your conscience.

baghead said:

(POKER EDGE I BELIEVE)
SO I HAVE 3 QUESTIONS
1ST DO I ABANDON MY MORALS AND GET A HUD/POKER TRACKER IF SO WHICH ONE IS THE BEST
2ND SHOULD I LOSE THE POORLY PAID JOB IM AT AND TAKE THE SPONSORSHIP DEAL ITS A SWEET DEAL BUT A BIG RISK
3RD WHATS YOUR VIEW ON THE MORALITY SIDE OF USING A HUD

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Don't use PE. It is a banned program at most sites so be sure to check rules. I know the big 2 ban them and if caught you could be banned or worse yet lose your BR.

1. Yes. PT3 or HEM

2. No

3. Many winning players use them, so I will too. They are also useful for knowing your own stats and table image. Besides HUDs, tracking software helps for reviewing your own hands in many helpful ways and fixing leaks.

The best aspect of a HUD I think is the ability to review your own hands and find, especially in my case, your misplays and correct your mistakes. You also get a good feel when someone is stealing and who will fold to a 3bet. All in all some very useful info

First, a hud is not cheating. All PT3 or HEM do is track information that is available to anyone who is at the table watching the game it just tracks it better than you could by yourself. It is still up to you use the information to your benefit.

Second, only you can decide if it is worth the risk to quit a job to chase a dream (assuming it is a dream for you) but I would say that as we get older we regret the things that we didn't do more than the things that we did. Personally, as long as you have some savings and a good resume to get back in the job market if it doesn't work, I say consider it a sabbatical and give it a shot.

Third, Please turn off the caps lock

As others have said a HUD isn't cheating - just a mechanism by which information is collated in a form for you to use. However it's odd that you seem to be then considering using PE which is acknowledged to be cheating by the major sites in that it tracks databases from hands that you are not involved in. If you're worried about the morality then using PE would seem a really odd choice.

As for quitting your job - hey it's your life but I'd look at a way of hedging my bets here (so to speak) maybe by taking some form of 'sabattical' or unpaid leave from your current job so you can give this a go for three months but leaving it open so you can go back if it doesn't work out. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

How exactly are you getting "sponsored"? Why can't you keep your job until your sure you can make it?

How many tables at a time do you usually play?

Anyone know if HUD is ban for Carbon poker. I'm thinking about trying it out. If it can help me make better decision to win money then I'm going to try it. I bet plenty of people have it right?

I agree with some earlier comments. Why do you have to quit your job and take the sponsorship? Can't you take the sponsorship, keep your job and put in 3-5 hours a day still? Try to test the waters?

I don't think using a HUD is cheating but you can't use one live so why would you cripple yourself and use one online?

I don't use a hud but I only play one or two tables at a time. If you're going to play more than that you'd be crazy not to use one.

baghead said:

NOW I KNOW I AM A BETTER PLAYER LIVE THAN MY FRIEND AS I REGULARLY CRUSH HIM IN LIVE GAMES SO I BELIEVE THE HUD IS GIVING HIM A BIG ADVANTAGE ONLINE.

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I think there is something else there than just HUD.
There's no way HUD can give that significant of an advantage.
More knowledge is power, but a HUD can only assist you in making those decisions. At the end of the timer, its up to you to make decisions based on your reads and odds calculations.

That being said, more knowledge is power. I don't see how a HUD can deter your game, especially when playing multiple tables and not having the amount of attention required for each specific table.

There's also quite a bit of a learning curve to HUD you should be aware about. It takes a while to be able to profile players based on HUD.

And because you claim to beat your friend live, if I were you, I'd take sometime to learn more about online poker (browse around CC). There might be something other than just HUD that's giving him an advantage.

camtheram13 said:

I don't think using a HUD is cheating but you can't use one live so why would you cripple yourself and use one online?

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Because you can't play 16 tables at the same time live.

ONLINE POKER AND LIVE POKER AREN'T THE SAME GAME, QUIT COMPARING THEM AS IF THEY ARE!!! <----- Acceptable use of caps lock and exclamation points.

DetroitJimmy said:

Don't use PE. It is a banned program at most sites so be sure to check rules. I know the big 2 ban them and if caught you could be banned or worse yet lose your BR.

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Yep, Poker Edge is cheating, and isn't exactly a HUD. Well, I believe it has a HUD (Heads up display) as part of it's software. But it's essentually telling you how to play ie when to bet, raise or fold. Which is why it's banned software.

PT3 and HEM (legal HUD's) do what SP said. They record all the hands you play and spit out numbers in various statistical categories. It's up to you, the player, to interpret the data the HUD spits out and use it to aid in your decision making.

Numbuh 0ne said:

How exactly are you getting "sponsored"? Why can't you keep your job until your sure you can make it?

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I'm willing to bet he's not getting "sponsored". More like getting staked from an online staking site. Or I guess he is getting "sponsored" because being "sponsored" = getting staked by an online site that will stake almost anyone.

normally 4 sit and go tables or 8 cash

the deal with the sponsor is i get £400 per day to play with everyday and anything over this gets skimmed off anything under this amount my account gets topped back up to £400 on a daily basis i take 50% of the profit

baghead said:

the deal with the sponsor is i get £400 per day to play with everyday and anything over this gets skimmed off anything under this amount my account gets topped back up to £400 on a daily basis i take 50% of the profit

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you mentioned giving up your day job. Why? Do you have a minimum number of hours you have to play every day with this deal?

TPC said:

Yep, Poker Edge is cheating, and isn't exactly a HUD. Well, I believe it has a HUD (Heads up display) as part of it's software. But it's essentually telling you how to play ie when to bet, raise or fold. Which is why it's banned software.

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This is not true. PE is banned not because it helps with decisions, but because of all the datamined hands they use.

Pretty much the same as PT3 or HM as far as a HUD. No tracking software to check out game while not in play. It is just as moral to me as purchasing HH's from third party.

I don't suggest using it because you will be banned if caught. As far as morals go you are no better if you buy HH's than if you use PE. As far as cheating goes you would be better off buying HH's. Impossible to know if you did this, but they can detect PE. Not suggesting you do this either.

Again I don't suggest cheating. I just wanted to clear that up.

DetroitJimmy said:

This is not true. PE is banned not because it helps with decisions, but because of all the datamined hands they use.

Pretty much the same as PT3 or HM as far as a HUD. No tracking software to check out game while not in play. It is just as moral to me as purchasing HH's from third party.

I don't suggest using it because you will be banned if caught. As far as morals go you are no better if you buy HH's than if you use PE. As far as cheating goes you would be better off buying HH's. Impossible to know if you did this, but they can detect PE. Not suggesting you do this either.

Again I don't suggest cheating. I just wanted to clear that up.

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Just looked it up, it's not the software I was thinking about. The software I was thinking about was pretty much a bot. You just had to hit what buttons it told you to hit.

TPC said:

Because you can't play 16 tables at the same time live.

ONLINE POKER AND LIVE POKER AREN'T THE SAME GAME, QUIT COMPARING THEM AS IF THEY ARE!!! <----- Acceptable use of caps lock and exclamation points.

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Dude, chill out. Even though I know they are not the same, would you really be that offended if I thought that? Tilt much?

Pffff....morality while playing a poker,lmao

Do you check-raise? Do you steal blinds? How can it be moral to do those but immoral to use a HUD when the vast majority of players out there are using them?

morality and poker...haha...like there is supposed to be some kinda honor code to it or something. The game is about making money...and that is it.

camtheram13 said:

Dude, chill out. Even though I know they are not the same, would you really be that offended if I thought that? Tilt much?

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Dude, understand poker forum humor. And if you knew they are not the same game, why would you make a comment like why use a HUD when you can't use one live? I answered you why and I made fun of the OP for using caps lock at the same time.

TPC said:

Dude, understand poker forum humor. And if you knew they are not the same game, why would you make a comment like why use a HUD when you can't use one live? I answered you why and I made fun of the OP for using caps lock at the same time.

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My bad if I did not think you were joking.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. If you plan on playing both online and live using a HUD can be like a crutch. A HUD can tell you pot odds, list your outs, tell you the types of players you are playing against, etc. If you cannot do these things on your own and in your mind then it cripples you when you play live.

But I guess if you only plan on playing online then I can see how using a HUD is beneficial.

camtheram13 said:

My bad if I did not think you were joking.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. If you plan on playing both online and live using a HUD can be like a crutch. A HUD can tell you pot odds, list your outs, tell you the types of players you are playing against, etc. If you cannot do these things on your own and in your mind then it cripples you when you play live.

But I guess if you only plan on playing online then I can see how using a HUD is beneficial.

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A HUD can't do what I put in bold above, at least PT3 and HEM don't. And if they did, I have a feeling they would then fall into the banned software. I get the feeling you've never used a HUD or know much about them.

Actually lets quit calling it a HUD. It's actually tracking software that records the hand histories the user plays. Part of the program is a HUD that you can use while you are playing to help aid you in decisions. Things you'll miss while playing four, five, ten, however many tables at the same time. It also allows you to go back and analyze your play. So it's a good tool to use to stay on top of your game. Good live players aren't always good online players. Their skill set doesn't transfer well to the online game. However, the online players skill set does transfer well to the live game. Advantage... The online player.

When playing live you have more than 15 seconds to act and more than a 15 second time bank. You have tons of time to make calculated decisions. You also, have a face to remind you of who you are playing against that can also offer tells, instead of some name and avatar. Like I said, live and online aren't even close to being the same game. Most people don't even know how to use the data a HUD spits out anyway. As far as it being a crutch, I could see how that might be true for some. But, who cares? Even without a HUD, online you know exactly what a players stack size is, how much is in the pot, ect. Again, back down the road of live isn't the same game as online.