How do you handle preflop QQ vs KK etc - coolers

Archiv3r

Archiv3r

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Last night i played 9max 0.05/0.10

3 times i got QQ i opened and faced a 3bet, called, low flop , c/shove and everytime i was against KK.

is there any way to get away from it, i lost 3 BI this way and i feel completely shit faced because when i get KK i get no callers at all :/
am i doing something wrong, is there away to get away from it
 
CriesuaID

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It seems to me only a sequence of bad luck, I would not act different from you.
Anyway, I will wait for other answers to see if there is any way to play this hand better.
 
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braveslice

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My guess is that you do something wrong, probably in many levels too. I suggest you open 3 hand history topics in hand analysis sub forum. I you don’t have data, just type it by hand as you remember it.
 
Archiv3r

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My guess is that you do something wrong, probably in many levels too. I suggest you open 3 hand history topics in hand analysis sub forum. I you don’t have data, just type it by hand as you remember it.

probably, but i think it has to do with it that it is zoom on pokerstars. i am never playing that crap again, only nits around
 
wagon596

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It just happens,, like someone told me once, "Sometimes you're the hammer, and sometimes you're the nail". Seems like I'm mostly the nail... hang in there...
 
firstcrack

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Those are pretty bad odds. I can understand why you're frustrated. Still, it does happen. Move on and things will no doubt turn around for you.
 
Aces2w1n

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playing nits isnt all that bad.. your just trying to fight fire with fire... try water :) and leave the wood
 
Tech101205

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Last night i played 9max 0.05/0.10

3 times i got QQ i opened and faced a 3bet, called, low flop , c/shove and everytime i was against KK.

is there any way to get away from it, i lost 3 BI this way and i feel completely shit faced because when i get KK i get no callers at all :/
am i doing something wrong, is there away to get away from it

you would be against QQ+ in this type of action most of the time.
Yes there is a possibility of AK/AQs for sure
But you must consider the possibility of overpair & play Carefully ,that way you might limit your loss of stack atleast
and also Check - shoving flop is a very bad play as you will get called only by better hand and will lose value against weak holdings
 
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fletchdad

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This is where profiling your opponent will be helpful, if possible. Do you use a HUD?

I have laid down AA-QQ to post flop aggression on different boards, depending on situations. If you are facing a passive post flop player who calls a lot pre, sets or big pairs are going to always be his range if he opens up post flop. If you have a savvy player, they could have bigger pairs, sets, underpairs, bluffs and draws, depending on how they play them. Sadly, it all depends.......

It all comes down to the player, and how you perceive his/her range. We dont want to just give up and fold a premium pair to any aggression, but we need to be able to range our opponent and be ready to fold vs. certain types of players.

Your description is very vague. How was your image at each table? How was your opponent's image? Were there stats on the player? You said you opened each time and were 3 bet, but from where did you open, and who 3 bet, and from what position? Why did you call each time? (Not saying it is wrong, but what was your thinking on what you did? Why did you do what you did?)

Sometimes you are right to not get away from a hand, and get coolered. Sometimes you have to grit your teeth and fold. Sometimes you dont know what is right, but still have to do something. So there are questions to ask yourself, and one of the first is "What is this players range in this particular situation?"
 
Beanfacekilla

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Last night i played 9max 0.05/0.10

3 times i got QQ i opened and faced a 3bet, called, low flop , c/shove and everytime i was against KK.

is there any way to get away from it, i lost 3 BI this way and i feel completely shit faced because when i get KK i get no callers at all :/
am i doing something wrong, is there away to get away from it


First of all, you have to have some idea of your opponents range. For example, if he's tight, tight-passive (many passive players only 3b QQ+, and maybe A-K), loose, just a passive fish who literally only 3b 2 hands, KK and AA (yes, see those types all the time, micro stakes are littered with weak passives), etc.

Second, why are you C/R all in on low flops with QQ? What are you trying to accomplish? What do we get called by? You're in a 3b pot, OOP, and you are C/R jamming. This is a full ring, micro stakes game. People don't do a whole lot of 3b at these stakes, and unless you have seen proof V is out of line, the decision to call a 3b pre OOP is already meh.... I don't feel you're going to be ahead a ton, at these stakes vs mostly passive villains.

I would treat the hand as a setmine, and proceed with caution post flop against an unknown V at these stakes if i call this 3b OOP (want to clarify flop is unknown low flop, need more specifics for post flop analysis). If the guy 3b us to say 1.20, I'd want to have effective stacks be $12.00+ if I thought I may be behind pre. Since I feel in spots like these, at these stakes, the hand we are beating is ace high combos, we have to allow them to bluff, so that's why we dont C/R AI on the flop.

See we can't focus on what this guy had, this time.... we have to think about what the ideal play is, in this spot, on this type of board, with our hand (QQ). So, what this guy had is irrelevant to an extent. If we find this spot tomorrow, we check call the flop. Proceed with caution. Keep his air hands in. And unless we have seen this guy 3b light, it's not a good spot to be in at micros stakes tables (unless we have seen proof this V will 3b light, we know he'll snap call with weak TP hand, etc etc etc, so many dynamics involved).

Like the only hand you are beating that may play this way is A-K or something like that, maybe A-Q (we're blocking that hand), A-J. JJ is also a possibility, but IMO many passive people will not 3b JJ or smaller pairs. And by C/R jamming, we really should fold those hands out (except JJ or 10-10 maybe) on low dry-ish board (specifics of the hand would be ideal). So, we accomplish nothing by C/R jam here. You shouldn't be surprised you ran into KK. You literally made it very difficult for V to continue with anything worse (aside from maybe NFD, which has a ton of equity, if applicable).


That's what I think.
 
strodawg

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Last night i played 9max 0.05/0.10

3 times i got QQ i opened and faced a 3bet, called, low flop , c/shove and everytime i was against KK.

is there any way to get away from it, i lost 3 BI this way and i feel completely shit faced because when i get KK i get no callers at all :/
am i doing something wrong, is there away to get away from it

it is tough luck to be against kks but if you bet preflop maybe 5x the blind then if your first to act then u can see how they bet a make a educated decision if they could be on a draw or bluffing and see if they hit the flop so you can fold. if nothing above your qq and your first to act on the flop u can try betting half to to 2/3 the pot size and if they come back strong and quick look at the draw and be sure they isnt any possible way they hit it. if your not first to act and its checked to u then if the flop is rainbow sloppy then u can do that half to 2/3 bet if the flop is scary then check and get through cheap as possible if it put u all in and it looks like u can be beat fold. i hope this helps
 
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Beanfacekill and fletchdad both very good and thought out answers. So if you were looking for help/answers, you got them.

These spots are "coolers". However you need to look at from an unbiased prospective. I've felt this same way and probably still do from time to time. And it's magnified when we lose $! Ask yourself some questions about how you could of proceeded in the hand differently. But read some of the replies (questions) and really examine the situation.
Two ?'s you should always ask yourself in a big hand / pot.
What better hands are you going to get to fold? And what worse hands are going to call you?

stoke
 
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You handle it by losing - ha.

If you're looking to get away from QQ or KK preflop in a .10/.25 cash game -- hold 'em is not for you :)
 
SPANKYSN

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QQ is a premium hand, and it is unfortunate to lose to a higher hand, but you must be aggressive with that hand and you will win more often than lose.
 
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What else can you do but learn to not feel the burn as bad as it keeps happening and will happen time and time again, I used to get so angry and be like why me this is BS , and get all worked up, I think once you've played so long and get More maturity u learn to take those better and better. Which is the silver lining in it
 
fly2tsky

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to me, even AA, a pair is just a pair. Sometimes it looks so setup that you would just fold JJ pre-flop though.
 
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braveslice

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His pre is fine, his post needs work.
 
TheMagic

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I think that in Zoom games, there are many factors to be emphasize :
1) A good read on your opponent. QQ is a premium hand, but in some situations I can see a possibility to fold it, especially against good REGS, after 4-Bet, shove.
2) Have ever tried to play 6-max? It´s a good way to improve your game, in Zoom, because you have less players to analyse, and in most part of the time, you have the position, to help your actions. I loved 9-max in cash, but the variance is hard to beat, and you can make more money / volume at 6-max tables, in the begging it´s not easy, but in general, it´s the best choice.
 
antonis32123

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Well , as they said play carefully when you open and start betting with QQ , QQ is a good/premium hand but might cause us trouble . Watch for the villains play , evaluate their pre and post flop game , especially with rocks , watch their stats , avoid check raising or going all in with it too much , don't get married to it , even in low flop , watch for set traps , play it carefully . For more info you have to give info on specific hands . When I loose one QQ hand , I don't play it again all in the same session , bad luck :D If I lose 2 BI I don't play more for BRM reasons and not to go on tilt . 3 times QQ , 3 times lost , best luck next time :)
 
C

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try adjusting you PRF acton. If we discount the possitions and just play face value of the cards 3 bet post ussualy will no happen with op holding less thatn ~ 10% of hands tha is ~120 hands! os PRF you have 60% equity гие any tricky flop just plumits you.
 
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Last night i played 9max 0.05/0.10

3 times i got QQ i opened and faced a 3bet, called, low flop , c/shove and everytime i was against KK.

I had almost the same thing happen today, I had QQ 3 times, twice I ran into KK (which held up) and once got into a race with AK (which I lost)
 
Kerimov

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QQ is a premium hand, and it is unfortunate to lose to a higher hand, but you must be aggressive with that hand and you will win more often than lose.

I don't agree with you more often with KK to choose the tactics of a mysterious player a that can move with the change
 
Kerimov

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I don't agree with you more often with KK to choose the tactics of a mysterious player a that can move with the change

I don't know I like to make KK from all the Bank
 
AgentXtreme

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I think in this spot , when you face a 3-bet even with a low flop , I would play this hand very passive , because oppenent can have many hands like KK AA small pairs and he hit the flop etc , so I guess there's no reason to C / shove this flop at this spot
 
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