Why is everyone so obsessed with MTTs?

[Lieutenant_OH7]

I was wondering why most players choose to play MTT in poker, instead of other poker variants like Sitngo or cashgames...
Now I do have some kind of addiction or attraction to MTT often but once I play them I found out again how ****ed up the variance and play is mostly.
I even wonder how people can enjoy that, be it if you're a pro or not...
For example a recent tournament I was in, my AK vs a guys A2 he catches a deuce and wins the pot. Bit later against same player, I raise on the flop with 2pair, A6, he raises all in with weak Ace 2 kicker, now when you see that you think he'draw dead right you win the hand, but turn & river both bring an 8 and pot splits up.. Wouldn't that make you crazy? In these tournaments I feel like a playing ball of the variance, and you have hardly control over the game. Then I wonder why all ppl still choose tournaments to play or make money.
Luck is such a big factor for me it gives min****s, and I learned/believe that being able to have a strong mind and still play your best "A" game despite bad variance is an important aspect of a good MTT Player. But then again I start to like and appreciate cash games more cuz you actually can have some "control" over the variance, and it won't determine your whole result of a session like in a tournament, where once your stack is gone your money is gone too and you can't win it back...
Recently played a 7stud hi-lo tourney too and that can be fun too but you don't meet as much casual players I assume who will give you gifts as in NLHE tournaments. Oh and the "hi-low" variant I find really confusing, better just have the normal variant.

Let me know your thoughts...

 

[Edu1]

there are many reasons...
for example, there is 5.000 players in a poker room, willing to play
how (lets say 800) will play a sit and go or cash game?
is almost impossible for a poker room made this, there would have to be countless tables
so, 4200 user only have a choice, play MTT. only a MTT can made the most possible users play
I think they create "zoom tables" because of this. hope this makes sense for someone

 

[Zvezda kz]

You covered so many topics in your essay. What I do not know what question to answer.
Personally, in my environment everyone plays cash games, and only I prefer tournaments. Recently, I play a lot of spin-and-go. So fans of tournaments are very few players.
In tournaments, in my opinion, the main struggle with itself and dispersion.

 

[neptun1914]

Every game type has advantages and disadvantages. I prefer MTTs and here are my reasons to do so:

1. You can not loose more than your buyin which makes it easier to follow good bankroll management. In cash games you can loose in one hand everything that you won for hours of play and if you go on tilt you can easily spend all your money quickly (especially if you allow automatic rebuy).
2. You can win big with small investment. Even with 0.55$ buyin MTT you can get around 200$ if you win the tournament which is around 400 times your buyin for several hours of play. Yes variance is huge and yes chance is slim but if you are good player you can be on plus balance from MTTs even at micro stakes.
3. It is simply more interesting for me. In MTTs increasing blinds cause people to be creative and try to survive and win every possible hand to get to the money. In cash games you do not have the factor of increasing blinds so everybody can wait for good hands and bad beats are quite common.

 

[Lieutenant_OH7]

Every game type has advantages and disadvantages. I prefer MTTs and here are my reasons to do so:

1. You can not loose more than your buyin which makes it easier to follow good bankroll management. In cash games you can loose in one hand everything that you won for hours of play and if you go on tilt you can easily spend all your money quickly (especially if you allow automatic rebuy).
2. You can win big with small investment. Even with 0.55$ buyin MTT you can get around 200$ if you win the tournament which is around 400 times your buyin for several hours of play. Yes variance is huge and yes chance is slim but if you are good player you can be on plus balance from MTTs even at micro stakes.
3. It is simply more interesting for me. In MTTs increasing blinds cause people to be creative and try to survive and win every possible hand to get to the money. In cash games you do not have the factor of increasing blinds so everybody can wait for good hands and bad beats are quite common.

Lol sorry but that 1st reason is about just same for cash games as tournaments, yes you can only use 1buyin per tournament unless you rebuy, but to keep playing you need to invest again just like in cashgames. And something that I can find very annoying in tournaments too if say let's say you play good and have a big stack for long time, and towards end of late reg and itm you lose a big pot and still bust, that can happen after like 5 hours of play, then you played 5 hours for nothing.

And 2. Yes you can win big with little investment, however that won't happen often and you will need not only skill but also a bunch of luck, the way lot of players play and gamble will only increase the big variance in a tournament. Also you can have a nice prize once but run bad later on where you waiste a lot of winnings on new buyins that got you nothing. Now I gotta say you need to have it from the bigger winnings if u play MTT, if u just get itm but not far then that just covers your buyin and maybe 2 other entries or hardly 1.

And your last point well I think bad beats at 1st can happen at any stake, table or game type.. Increasing blinds well the advantage of that in my expierence is some ppl tend to push and take risks with that which makes players get eliminated more quickly, if you are patient you can take advantage of that, mostly when I risked more it went bad for me.

The only more fun part of MTT For me is that you have the process of it and if you can build up a nice stack and survive til the end it's fun, there is more dynamic to it than cashgames for sure which is always pretty much the same and probably can get more boring quicker.

 

[Joe]

Large-field MTT's are the biggest challenge.

This isn't fact, it's just my opinion..

Big challenge, big reward! :biggrin:

MTT for life!

Cash, SNG and other types of games are great- don't get me wrong.. I enjoy playing any and all game types, they all have a time & a place..

It's just if I was going to choose to be a champion poker player, why not tournament champion?

 

[Lieutenant_OH7]

You covered so many topics in your essay. What I do not know what question to answer.
Personally, in my environment everyone plays cash games, and only I prefer tournaments. Recently, I play a lot of spin-and-go. So fans of tournaments are very few players.
In tournaments, in my opinion, the main struggle with itself and dispersion.

What is spin&go or did you mean sitngo? Well in general a lot more players play tournaments over cash games, you just happen to be around those kind of ppl then but in general and mainly players that make a living off it plays tournaments not cash games...

 

[Mikeloti13]

Higher reward. Thats mostly it. Its much more difficult to let say advance all the way to the final table but its much more rewarding if you do. Then there is the fact that you're trying to be the best out of huge amount of players. Then the sense of accomplishment if you succeed to be among the top players out of so many.

 

[ninjareal]

I think the main reason some mtt aren't as good as they should be is because or the rebuy option, if there were more freeze-out mtt , it would be better and we would see less risk taking imo , I view these very long late reg + rebuy as in a sense a very long cash game, with the relative difference between the buyins/prizes , for example, a $1 buyin with say FT prizes from $20+ , this will give incentive to spend at least $10 or so on rebuys, some players with experience with this have noticed this and taken advantage of the format, .
.so to call them pure mtt is a bit wrong,
.
as for the losing after 5hrs of play, well that's about skill and pacing of the mtt, wsop is days long, so if we can't last 8hrs mtt then that's bad, same goes for a cash game though, you can have a 5hr session and last hand enter huge pot with rival and get say set over set and lose it all, same variance , my 5c

 

[neptun1914]

Lol sorry but that 1st reason is about just same for cash games as tournaments, yes you can only use 1buyin per tournament unless you rebuy, but to keep playing you need to invest again just like in cashgames. And something that I can find very annoying in tournaments too if say let's say you play good and have a big stack for long time, and towards end of late reg and itm you lose a big pot and still bust, that can happen after like 5 hours of play, then you played 5 hours for nothing.

And 2. Yes you can win big with little investment, however that won't happen often and you will need not only skill but also a bunch of luck, the way lot of players play and gamble will only increase the big variance in a tournament. Also you can have a nice prize once but run bad later on where you waiste a lot of winnings on new buyins that got you nothing. Now I gotta say you need to have it from the bigger winnings if u play MTT, if u just get itm but not far then that just covers your buyin and maybe 2 other entries or hardly 1.

And your last point well I think bad beats at 1st can happen at any stake, table or game type.. Increasing blinds well the advantage of that in my expierence is some ppl tend to push and take risks with that which makes players get eliminated more quickly, if you are patient you can take advantage of that, mostly when I risked more it went bad for me.

The only more fun part of MTT For me is that you have the process of it and if you can build up a nice stack and survive til the end it's fun, there is more dynamic to it than cashgames for sure which is always pretty much the same and probably can get more boring quicker.

In MTT you should adjust your game style to the different stages of the tournament. If you do that the chance of bust before the money is minimized. I agree that patience is needed and there is always risk to play for a long time and get nothing. After all that's why there are different games for different players. If you like cash games and you are successful at them - well enjoy it. For me MTTs are more interesting so i play them.

 

[Debi]

For me when I could play online -

My skill set was more suited to MTT's - I did very well in MTT's and struggled with sng's.

I didn't want to 12 table sng's trying to win a few bucks - I preferred to 4 table MTT's with the opportunity to win thousands in a single event.

Playing live - tournaments are way more interesting and exciting to me - again with the chance of winning a lot more money.

I hate playing cash - online and live. It bores the crap out of me and makes me very restless. I never last very long at a cash table - not because I lose my money but because I can't bear to sit there for long.

 

[greatgame230]

I do not think that there is a greater tendency to MTT since in all forms of playing it depends on how the player feels, there are those who prefer to play cash because they can stop when they want and they manage their time the stt because they last 30 or 45 (when It is a table) it is shorter although the prize is less and those of mtt are those who have the availability to play for several consecutive hours and seek a large amount of money with a buy-in, that's why I think they are all valid and that there is no tendency towards a specific one

 

[Arthur ZM]

I prefer MTT for only one reason, since playing them is much more interesting than playing a cash game. The cash game seems to me too boring, but in MTT, the closer you get to money or the final table, the game becomes more and more interesting.

 

[moulan7]

Used to play cash games but really got bored.
''The thrill is gone away'' xD from that and went to the tourneys.

I really enjoy much more the format of a tourney, so many things to consider and strategies and all the competition and the chance on a big win make things exciting and more interesting for me.

Of course it is a marathon and luck plays a big role but the feeling of winning a tourney and its prize is incomparable with anything else for me in the world of poker.

 

[_xgeb_]

For most people, tournaments are preferred, because seeing what can be gained by reaching the final table is motivating.
The profitability of playing one modality or another would be under discussion. Right here in this forum, there are professional players who have made huge profits at cash tables.
For tastes there is nothing written.

 

[iwont20]

Because it's the game format which has and will have more potential than other formats and which will die the last... exactly for the same reasons you named - high variance, gambling gets rewarded, big prizes for grabs and so on. That all attracts more players. And if you want to make $$, then you want to play against weaker players, right?

 

[Poker_Mike]

I was wondering why most players choose to play MTT in poker, instead of other poker variants like Sitngo or cashgames...
Now I do have some kind of addiction or attraction to MTT often but once I play them I found out again how ****ed up the variance and play is mostly.
I even wonder how people can enjoy that, be it if you're a pro or not...
For example a recent tournament I was in, my AK vs a guys A2 he catches a deuce and wins the pot. Bit later against same player, I raise on the flop with 2pair, A6, he raises all in with weak Ace 2 kicker, now when you see that you think he'draw dead right you win the hand, but turn & river both bring an 8 and pot splits up.. Wouldn't that make you crazy? In these tournaments I feel like a playing ball of the variance, and you have hardly control over the game. Then I wonder why all ppl still choose tournaments to play or make money.
Luck is such a big factor for me it gives min****s, and I learned/believe that being able to have a strong mind and still play your best "A" game despite bad variance is an important aspect of a good MTT Player. But then again I start to like and appreciate cash games more cuz you actually can have some "control" over the variance, and it won't determine your whole result of a session like in a tournament, where once your stack is gone your money is gone too and you can't win it back...
Recently played a 7stud hi-lo tourney too and that can be fun too but you don't meet as much casual players I assume who will give you gifts as in NLHE tournaments. Oh and the "hi-low" variant I find really confusing, better just have the normal variant.

Let me know your thoughts...

There are a lot of benefits to MTT's.

Where else can you 20x (or better) you buyin? Sure it's possible in a cash game - but that would be a longshot.

To me - in an MTT (and this is true in STT also) it is a purer form of poker because you can not buy more chips. So your decisions mean more.

And, yes the player you are referencing w A2 is making a big mistake and really can't last long in an MTT.

Having said that - some players will never fold Ax or any pair or their BB in an MTT. Right or wrong they have decided to always play that way.

Find something you like to play that you can be successful at and stay with it!

Good luck !

 

[Nanoldb]

I think they attract tournaments to the players since we all start with the same amount of chips and it is a simple competition to understand and attractive when it comes to betting our money and if you do well the final prizes are interesting

 

[fundiver199]

I think, a lot of people get attracted by the home-run potential of MTTs. In a small MTT, you can win your buyin back 20-50 times, and in large MTTs its way more. If you qualify via a satellite, maybe you can turn 2$ into a million. This is the dream, which many recreational players are chasing.

From the perspective of a grinder variance is a drawback, but its compensated by the fact, MTTs are often soft, and the effective rake is lower than for other game formats. For the initial payment of 10% you can play for hours, whereas a STT is finished in just one hour, and with cash games every single pot is raked.

So in my experience its easier to make money in MTTs than other game formats. You just need to seek out those, where the fields are not overly large, and these are mostly found on small or medium sized poker sites.

You dont want to be battling with 17.000 people in the Sunday Storm on pokerstars, because then variance will indeed be nearly impossible to overcome. But a 5$ tournament on 888 Poker with 87 entries is a great way to build a bankroll. They are full of bad players, and you dont need to play that many to overcome variance.

 

[tw082]

I'm not sure how variance at a cash table is more controlled than in tournaments. I enjoy a micro cash table live mainly because it's hard to schedule entire day around a mtt. Online I can risk 5-10 bucks play for hrs and maybe win couple hundred bucks. While if I was sitting at a cash table online in those same hrs i could easily be down couple hundred. One thing is I don't fully trust any gambling machine programmed by the house. Two if i have the chance to have a large amount of cash riding on each single hand i want to be able to read the other player. Online I pretty much play the cards witch is why I lean towards grinding it out in mtt's playing tag until I am in a position to make some money while never being in real danger of losing an amount that would even hurt my pocket money. However it is a recreation for me not a source of income.

 

[fundiver199]

For example a recent tournament I was in, my AK vs a guys A2 he catches a deuce and wins the pot. Bit later against same player, I raise on the flop with 2pair, A6, he raises all in with weak Ace 2 kicker, now when you see that you think he'draw dead right you win the hand, but turn & river both bring an 8 and pot splits up.. Wouldn't that make you crazy?

I dont see, how this has anything to do with the game format? Bad beats and coolers happen in all forms of poker. Maybe it just annoy you more in MTTs, because you often play for hours only to still be eliminated before the money or score a rather meaningless min-cash? MTTs do indeed require more patience, and as I already said, you should mainly be playing the smaller ones.

 

[chronical]

1 - suits some players over others: you like - cash, some1 like hyperturbo sngs... like spins lets say. cash if more of a grind, you MUST play fro leaderbords, rakeback and so on.
2 - the field. cash is ez on nl2 but even if you get to semthing like nl25 you are platying with regs you can not compare even something,like BB109 with nl100.
after something like nl200 games are drying out and you ar playing semi-crushers and crushers.
3 - solvers and other osft is more suited for cash than MTTs
4 - same as spins. the chans to turn 11$ into 14k ....
just of the top

 

[akgross]

MTT is a good discipline and everyone finds their interest in this. You have 50% of the possibilities during the game to increase the result. The structure of the blinds, the starting stack and the number of players allow you to choose a suitable tournament. Here it is possible to fill the stack in the first half hour of the game and be in non-games, and at the same time you will not significantly lose the initiative.

 

[fundiver199]

2 - the field. cash is ez on nl2 but even if you get to semthing like nl25 you are platying with regs

This is exactly, what brought me into MTTs. On PokerStars I had difficulties achieving a significant winrate at 10NL cash games. For some reason I fared much better at 16NL cash games, but the 5.000 or so hands, I played at 25NL, was an endless and mostly futile search for good tables.

I then moved to 888 Poker but found, the situation was no different there, plus 20NL and 30NL cash games were often not even running. And I did not want to skip those limits and go directly to 50NL, which for whatever reason is more popular on 888 Poker.

The tournaments on the other hand turned out to be a bit of a goldmine on 888 Poker with much softer competition and less effective rake-dollars paid per hour. Before rake my hourly winrate might actually be rather similar, but when I play cash, the vast majority of my winnings are kept by the pokersite.

As for STTs I have tried these on both Stars and 888, and on both sites I have found it difficult to overcome the rake. I am not losing, but I am not really winning either, and I am not particularly exited about the prospect of maybe grinding out a 2% ROI long term, while the poker site keep more than 10% as rake. Action in STTs also tend to die out at fairly low stakes, so at some point you will need to change to MTTs anyway.

To sum it up I think, MTTs is the game format, which will survive longest in online poker, and which currently has the most upside potential. We still see poker sites being able to run MTTs with record breaking price pools, while high stakes cash games and even more high stakes STTs have become a desert.

 

[wizcup]

I was wondering why most players choose to play MTT in poker, instead of other poker variants like Sitngo or cashgames...
Now I do have some kind of addiction or attraction to MTT often but once I play them I found out again how ****ed up the variance and play is mostly.
I even wonder how people can enjoy that, be it if you're a pro or not...
For example a recent tournament I was in, my AK vs a guys A2 he catches a deuce and wins the pot. Bit later against same player, I raise on the flop with 2pair, A6, he raises all in with weak Ace 2 kicker, now when you see that you think he'draw dead right you win the hand, but turn & river both bring an 8 and pot splits up.. Wouldn't that make you crazy? In these tournaments I feel like a playing ball of the variance, and you have hardly control over the game. Then I wonder why all ppl still choose tournaments to play or make money.
Luck is such a big factor for me it gives min****s, and I learned/believe that being able to have a strong mind and still play your best "A" game despite bad variance is an important aspect of a good MTT Player. But then again I start to like and appreciate cash games more cuz you actually can have some "control" over the variance, and it won't determine your whole result of a session like in a tournament, where once your stack is gone your money is gone too and you can't win it back...
Recently played a 7stud hi-lo tourney too and that can be fun too but you don't meet as much casual players I assume who will give you gifts as in NLHE tournaments. Oh and the "hi-low" variant I find really confusing, better just have the normal variant.

Let me know your thoughts...

For AK v A2 hands. I also personally experience it, but not on MTT, on cash game. So, I personally hate cash game as in one play my buy-in and some winnings just disappeared vs probably a whale. So, the risk is on both sides, cash and MTT.

And personally, I think MTT is a adrenaline enhancer, especially if you got to the last table.