Wasting time. Right or Wrong strategy?

[TheKAAHK]

When you stall, it doesn't just screw yourself, it screws everyone at the table. Also, if all of the other tables are stalling too, it becomes a race to the bottom and nobody wins.

You can tell how many fish are at the tables when you've entered hand for hand play on the bubble and everybody is still stalling.

This constantly bothers me. Hand for hand and 4 players at the table still time out every hand. I even pipe up every now and then and tell them (politely) that it's really stupid to be doing that since it's utterly pointless, but they always keep doing it anyways.

 

[S3mper]

Hi. I can give you one example where I would stall.

Imagine if you were playing an satelite event and there were 9 seats to the WSOP main event. There were 10 players left and I had the 2nd shortest stack left in the tourney. The other table where the short stack was going to be in the bb next hand. I would play slowly so he had the chance to bust before I did. Irrespective of my hand.

I think you may understand my situation here, this would be the only time I played slowly!!!

Perhaps the tourney would be hand-to-hand by then. I think his is the only time you would be justified playing slow.

Interesting reading on this forum, I am really enjoying it. Thanks all. And good luck :trytofly:

I do understand. There are times where it's not a bad strategy depending on the exact stack set ups. Obviously it is a known "loophole" in the system which is why most places have enacted hand for hand.

Say what you like about having an edge...but edge or no edge the more hands you see on the bubble will also increase your variance. It just will.

Let me give you a different situation. You're on the bubble. There are 11 players and 2 tables left. top 10 get paid. You are the 3rd shortest stack and the 2 other short stacks are at the other table, and they are obviously both stalling every hand. So, if you DON'T stall then you're not on an even playing field and they directly benefit by increasing your variance. Like it or not, stalling exists in tournament poker. It may be annoying but it is a strategy that others employ and so to simply say "I'm a good player, I want to see more hands" is really just oversimplifying a complex bubble dynamic.

I'd liken this to resume fluffing. If everyone else is fluffing their resumes, then you come in with a purely factual resume with no euphemisms or exaggerations, then while you may be preserving your integrity, you are not "playing the game" and you may get passed over for an important interview.

The world is what it is, and it's up to us thinking and logical players to adjust. stalling on the bubble happens and always will happen. It is part of tournament poker.

In both of these examples hand for hand play should be in effect and then stalling would be pointless.

Ofc should is the main word here...

Stalling is just a losing play long term...

I don't think getting more hands highers the variance since the blinds are going to go up and you haven't done anything to double up while stalling. It also back fires when the bubble doesn't bust and now you have 4bb's because you weren't willing to be knocked out on the bubble..

If you aren't willing to get knocked out on the bubble at a chance to win the tournament or make top 3 in spots where you should be then it's a mistake to be playing in the tournament

Your either playing too high or the money means to much to you.

Yes, people satty into tournaments where a min cash would be huge for their BR but I think it's still -EV to not take a shot and risk bubbling in order to get a nice BR boost when the reward for the risk could be game changing or life changing..

If it's a satty where all the places pay the same I still don't like stalling... Take a shot double up and watch all the other people stall then bust with 3bb shove with A4

 

[horizon12]

The more you play hands , the better you need to know postflop game and not make many mistakes, While the need to play no more than 2 tables because you have to do a lot of attention on the table..So it all depends on your game level..

 

[Rawdeal1955]

wasting time

It's not a good thing, the the faster it goes the more hands and the next hand may your huge pot you've been waiting for. Who said winning isn't everything?
In my opinion is who goes into a tournament to be first one out or out on the bubble, you go in to win.

 

[AWW_DIN]

So the more tournaments im playing the more i find that watching ppl waste time may be annoying but man does it help me grow my stack prior to the bubble bursting. All those who waist the time i know i can push and usually get a fold stealing blinds with ATC. Also after bursting of the bubble, those who were wasting time are now loosening up their game and open to low ball or trap plays

 

[AtiFCOD]

So the more tournaments im playing the more i find that watching ppl waste time may be annoying but man does it help me grow my stack prior to the bubble bursting. All those who waist the time i know i can push and usually get a fold stealing blinds with ATC. Also after bursting of the bubble, those who were wasting time are now loosening up their game and open to low ball or trap plays

That's true. It's easy to steal from slowers. But on the other hand slowers usually have resteal stacks...

 

[floweryhead]

Ok. In my earlier post I said "If people want to stall, let them stall". I think my point is that people are going to do this anyway, and it's bad for any player to let this tilt them. It's a strategy that whilst annoying also works. Otherwise, why would there be this thread?

 

[S3mper]

Ok. In my earlier post I said "If people want to stall, let them stall". I think my point is that people are going to do this anyway, and it's bad for any player to let this tilt them. It's a strategy that whilst annoying also works. Otherwise, why would there be this thread?

Folding AA on the bubble with a big stack will work for getting you ITM, doesn't mean it's the correct play.

It doesn't tilt me in the sense of I'm going to be making mistakes that I wouldn't of have if they weren't stalling but it does tilt me in that annoying way lolz

You're right though nothing you can do about it... I like to pretend that when they get down to 60 seconds I go "Clock!!!" and the imaginary floor guy comes

=o

 

[sandund]

I play a lot of tournaments and find the closer i get to placing in the money, people start take as much time as they can. I assume the strategy is let the shorter stacks or just other ppl lose so u place. So my question is do u think this is right or wrong strategy? Smart move or not?

I don`t see any problem, players just use the regular option there. If they are shorter stacks it can be a good strategy for them to take the place in the money, and is all by the rules. If some players with more chips want to take their adventage to see more hands, then we can consider 'shorter stacks time move' as skillful play also.

 

[Farseer]

Stalling in general is a bad idea, but useful in three different situations:

1) Bubble is near and you're small stack and have little folding equity. Or you have bad position vs. aggressive larger stack.

2) FT-bubble is near, but not yet hand-for-hand and other players are playing high-variance game and you have either small or medium stack.

3) Satellite even quite far from bubble. It is useful to do if that means that you can get the seat even by doubling once instead of having to double + get more chips.

If you have large stack, never stall in regular tournament. Even with rather small stack you can usually put real pressure against other (weak) small stacks during bubble / FT-bubble.

 

[punctual]

I play a lot of tournaments and find the closer i get to placing in the money, people start take as much time as they can. I assume the strategy is let the shorter stacks or just other ppl lose so u place. So my question is do u think this is right or wrong strategy? Smart move or not?

I used to do this when i was the leader in a tournament. its a good way to make a lot of enemies at the table but i mean you are not really there to make friends anyways (well, winning first, friends second).

But I don't do this anymore. I would especially employ the strategy of taking as much time as possible during my turn in hyper tourneys where I was the leader. Doing this, I believe, encourages players to be more aggressive which is to say play weaker hands more aggressively than they normally would. This can be a good thing. Probably bad table etiquette though. Honestly, I think that's a noob move

 

[S3mper]

I use to do it too... It's just one of those things you evolve out of as your game progresses.

 

[punctual]

Folding AA on the bubble with a big stack will work for getting you ITM, doesn't mean it's the correct play.

It doesn't tilt me in the sense of I'm going to be making mistakes that I wouldn't of have if they weren't stalling but it does tilt me in that annoying way lolz

You're right though nothing you can do about it... I like to pretend that when they get down to 60 seconds I go "Clock!!!" and the imaginary floor guy comes

=o

LOL the imaginary floor guy. too funny S3mper

 

[sandund]

The better you are as a player, the more hands you want to see. Trying to just cash is a bad strategy anyway.

Trying to cash is an only strategy there and a good one. Think a minute about it, if they use a regular option there in attempt to get themself in a position to take the place in money prize, than that can be a good move to them. If players who have more chips are frustrated or annoyed with the protraction, than they are not the better players as they think about themselfs. It is not a charity kind of tournament and they don`t owe nothing like ' more hands to see' to opponents on the table. If you are talking about that like a problem for your strategy "I wan`t to see more hands" , than that is a also a skillful play which give a problem to you and your strategy. LOL.

 

[sandund]

I hate when people stall though because it takes EV away from me in the tournament no matter if I'm short or deep.

Don`t get me wrong, I also like to see more hands...but...if you find that as a problem to you and your way of playing, than problem is in you and your way of playing. If some players using all of the time limit they have, they still play by the rules.

 

[S3mper]

Don`t get me wrong, I also like to see more hands...but...if you find that as a problem to you and your way of playing, than problem is in you and your way of playing. If some players using all of the time limit they have, they still play by the rules.

ofc I can't control the way they play if they are playing with in the confines of the rules... Just wish they knew they were hurting themselves so they would stop doing it lol

 

[kefir]

an example, where I think, it is +EV to stall.
a tourney, with evenly distributed money (sattelite or this FR on FT with RGT tickets), you have 1 BB left and there are a number of other shortys, who prob won't survive into the next orbit. It is apparent that there is less than one orbit before the money.

 

[Mrjamesbond1977]

I really hate stalling it can be very annoying.

 

[gqr31ff]

it all depends on the stack, and a tournament is .ja rarely do so basically if I pull it I know that the game will not handle a tiny stack.

but in general, you can and try to play and see a lot of hands so more will vozmozheosti win and go on and not sit and pull the game for the sake of the few places
again depends on what tournament and the situation

 

[Lekoo]

I do stall in occasions when I play some "fat" freeroll where mincash means a lot to me, or in tourneys where all places are paid equally (tokens for example), but ONLY if I am one of the players with smallest stack.

 

[stevenright]

depends on its importance.. it is very important at satellites.
I give you an example.... lulu.pk got a ticket to the WCOOP main event with about 100 chips, and the blinds were like 4k, the smart decision there is to stall as much as you can, cause you never gonna get anyone to fold anything, and will bubble a big satellite, not smart in that situation.

and i would stall a lot in the action hour.... i always late register with 59 minutes and just wait to blinds go down, but if i have a hand i would shove anyways.

 

[whowantwhat]

What is hand for hand play?

 

[Zorba]

What is hand for hand play?

When you are 1 from the money hand for hand play begins, it is one hand at a time on the remaining tables, e.g say there are 3 tables left there will be 1 hand on table 1 then when that hand finishes there will be 1 hand on table 2 then when that hand finishes there will be 1 hand on table 3 and so on until the money is reached.

Hand for hand also comes in when there is a jump in cash, say 27th to 19th get the same mount when there are 19 players left hand for hand will begin again, and so on with every cash jump.


I hope that answers your question.



.

 

[VYtautasLu]

Just cashing in is not a bad strategy at all, if you're on a short stack, let's say it's not a bad thing to waste time if you're sitting on 3-5 big blinds, when you get into money - you get back your buy-in, so you can relax and open up with shoving hand range

 

[AWW_DIN]

I don`t see any problem, players just use the regular option there. If they are shorter stacks it can be a good strategy for them to take the place in the money, and is all by the rules. If some players with more chips want to take their adventage to see more hands, then we can consider 'shorter stacks time move' as skillful play also.

I like this. I mean of course when u play a tourney u aim for 1st place. However if on the bubble and u dont have many chips then stalling to at least place would be a skilled play. I mean if u have gotten that far might as well do what u can to make something. Might be different in hand for hand play but not all site do hand for hand . I prefer to see as many hands as i can but when i really short stack and might not even survive the bb sb then yes i admit i waste some time