Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Please explain how you justify these comments in the light of the evidence I have posted that it is not legal online.
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Further evidence, from Titan`s rules:
"Any breach of these rules will result in the player being contacted and will carry the risk of suspension or ban from the poker room.........
Timely play - We understand that, occasionally, you may require some thinking time when playing. Please however consider the other players and try to make every effort not to slow up the progress of the game."
"Any breach of these rules will result in the player being contacted and will carry the risk of suspension or ban from the poker room.........
Timely play - We understand that, occasionally, you may require some thinking time when playing. Please however consider the other players and try to make every effort not to slow up the progress of the game."
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Further evidence, from party poker`s rules:
"Don't stall. Regardless of the game or tournament it hurts you and everybody else at the table."
I could go on, but I think the point is made. I know that the practice of stalling is quite commonplace. It is, however, considered improper by most poker rooms. It is not to be recommended, imo.
"Don't stall. Regardless of the game or tournament it hurts you and everybody else at the table."
I could go on, but I think the point is made. I know that the practice of stalling is quite commonplace. It is, however, considered improper by most poker rooms. It is not to be recommended, imo.
Makwa
Undesirable Predator
Silver Level
There is another protracted thread here on stalling as bubble strategy; I dont think Egon's points appeared there, it was largely an 'ethical' issue (too lazy right now to find)... I agree with Trigga that it is usually loser mentality, also w Egon that it is proscribed most places. That having been said, the rules above are always subject to interpretation (what is 'timely,' is one person's timely another's tardy etc.??), are generally not enforced partly for that reason. I'm sure if you shout out to the table that you are stalling, or ask others to join, u will get in trouble. But sometimes, it is a reasonable and useable ploy when used judiciously without the appearance of impropriety IMHO (dam I should been a lawyer, do u think??) :smile:
:smile:
Leo 50
Legend
Silver Level
If you are a short stack and fighting to make the bubble, a small amount of time may help you make the money but it isn't always going to succeed.
If you really considering making a call, raise or push take your time, it can be a deceptive strategy and help you take down a pot sometimes, but if you are just stalling to just hit the money it can be annoying.
I usually take my time when playing, too many times I have rushed a bet or a call only to realize I was trapped or in the wrong position.
As others have said, if this is your usual strategy maybe you are not playing as well as you think you are. If it is a rare occurrence then slow down the play and analyze the situation but don't stall it.
As for the rules at various sites, they want you to play as many hands an hour as possible. They make their money that way.
One of my biggest gripes about online poker is the clock.
Live poker really allows a good player to analyze their position, the hands and the action prior to them to make good poker decisions.
If you really considering making a call, raise or push take your time, it can be a deceptive strategy and help you take down a pot sometimes, but if you are just stalling to just hit the money it can be annoying.
I usually take my time when playing, too many times I have rushed a bet or a call only to realize I was trapped or in the wrong position.
As others have said, if this is your usual strategy maybe you are not playing as well as you think you are. If it is a rare occurrence then slow down the play and analyze the situation but don't stall it.
As for the rules at various sites, they want you to play as many hands an hour as possible. They make their money that way.
One of my biggest gripes about online poker is the clock.
Live poker really allows a good player to analyze their position, the hands and the action prior to them to make good poker decisions.
T
ted80
Rock Star
Silver Level
i'm agreeing with those who are against stalling. when you're dealt 47o, you're shortstacked and you're in early-mid-position...and you know you are going to fold, you should fold without taking up 30 seconds of everyone's time. there are times, in a satellite, when you're nearing the bubble, and you've opened up a couple other tables where there are shortstackers and see they're about to get blinded out and that makes all the difference between winning and losing, that's one thing...you've done your research, you're using this as you're edge...but under no other circumstances have i found extending time with your hand you know you're going to fold anyway is going to help.
first of all, it's rude to everyone who is trying to play the game. here's the deal, it's online poker...the blinds are set to go up, no holds barred, at a certain second...so you need to realize other tables are seeing more hands as a result of your stalling....so do the math. you see less hands, so that's less decent hands you might want to play...far less often are you in position to make a move to try to improve your (more than likely crippled and dying pathetic) chip stack....and it's all your fault. and EVERY time the big blind hits you, its yet EVEN bigger than the last time, even though you've seen all of 7 hands since the last time it increased. and then...you have the nerve to call it a "bad beat" when you get dealt AA after you make the money, with an M of 1.3, and half the table calls, and you lose.
when i'm getting near short, i'm looking for spots to get my chips in because those blinds make a big difference in my tourney life. even my 47o in the SB, i'd rather go out when an M of 7 than fold my way to an M of 1 and be pissed off AA lost....and these spots i'm hunting for, i want them fast...blinds are hitting everybody else too...so if you feel the need to stall constantly, that's a serious issue with the way you play poker. perhaps you're better served just working on learning how to play...yeah, sometimes the donk who doesn't have the odds to call DOES call with a 29s and wins with a 9 high over your 47o, hey, whatever, that's his problem...but when you GIVE HIM THE ODDS TO CALL your AA shove because you stalled every hand and your chips aren't much over the BB...you know, he was correct to call you, and i wanna shake his hand for taking you out because you are annoying!
if we've gone over a good handful of dealings and miss_sofine69 is clicking fold at the last second for every single hand...i won't hesitate to ask them to please pick up the pace a little bit...EVERYONE else in the tourney is seeing more hands, is getting more opportunities.
it really is a noobish kinda thing to do, and that's who you usually see abusing stalling. i think most people in this thread advocating stalling really need to work on getting your chips all-in when your chipstack still means something, rather than being a hindrance to everyone else in a tournament who understood this and did the same earlier. you're probably going to get to a point where you realize "hey, my stack is getting short" in every tournament and you need to act on it in the near future...not stall 30 seconds per hand from the time the big blind is 200. and when you realize this...you'll not only have a lot more fun playing, but you'll allow everyone else to enjoy the game too.
that's just my opinion though, i get poker-stall rage just like i get road rage...i'll yell at the monitor, stand up, point at the monitor, say bad words. 90% of the time, a stall from me usually means "i gotta pee i gotta pee! i gotta peeeeee soooooooo baaaaaaaaaad!" and i went pee...where i thought i could get back before slowing the game down.
first of all, it's rude to everyone who is trying to play the game. here's the deal, it's online poker...the blinds are set to go up, no holds barred, at a certain second...so you need to realize other tables are seeing more hands as a result of your stalling....so do the math. you see less hands, so that's less decent hands you might want to play...far less often are you in position to make a move to try to improve your (more than likely crippled and dying pathetic) chip stack....and it's all your fault. and EVERY time the big blind hits you, its yet EVEN bigger than the last time, even though you've seen all of 7 hands since the last time it increased. and then...you have the nerve to call it a "bad beat" when you get dealt AA after you make the money, with an M of 1.3, and half the table calls, and you lose.
when i'm getting near short, i'm looking for spots to get my chips in because those blinds make a big difference in my tourney life. even my 47o in the SB, i'd rather go out when an M of 7 than fold my way to an M of 1 and be pissed off AA lost....and these spots i'm hunting for, i want them fast...blinds are hitting everybody else too...so if you feel the need to stall constantly, that's a serious issue with the way you play poker. perhaps you're better served just working on learning how to play...yeah, sometimes the donk who doesn't have the odds to call DOES call with a 29s and wins with a 9 high over your 47o, hey, whatever, that's his problem...but when you GIVE HIM THE ODDS TO CALL your AA shove because you stalled every hand and your chips aren't much over the BB...you know, he was correct to call you, and i wanna shake his hand for taking you out because you are annoying!
if we've gone over a good handful of dealings and miss_sofine69 is clicking fold at the last second for every single hand...i won't hesitate to ask them to please pick up the pace a little bit...EVERYONE else in the tourney is seeing more hands, is getting more opportunities.
it really is a noobish kinda thing to do, and that's who you usually see abusing stalling. i think most people in this thread advocating stalling really need to work on getting your chips all-in when your chipstack still means something, rather than being a hindrance to everyone else in a tournament who understood this and did the same earlier. you're probably going to get to a point where you realize "hey, my stack is getting short" in every tournament and you need to act on it in the near future...not stall 30 seconds per hand from the time the big blind is 200. and when you realize this...you'll not only have a lot more fun playing, but you'll allow everyone else to enjoy the game too.
that's just my opinion though, i get poker-stall rage just like i get road rage...i'll yell at the monitor, stand up, point at the monitor, say bad words. 90% of the time, a stall from me usually means "i gotta pee i gotta pee! i gotta peeeeee soooooooo baaaaaaaaaad!" and i went pee...where i thought i could get back before slowing the game down.
kadafi
Rock Star
Silver Level
I never realized I had the right to complain about this. All too often ive been playing a tourny or a turbo multi table SNG and seen people using every last second of their time and then fold.And you just know that they had a hand like 85 that they never seriously considered playing. Nothing annoys me more tbh, because when im in their position, shortstacked approaching the bubble, I never waste time. Instead I go faster hoping to pick up a hand to make a move with.
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
bazerk
Legend
Silver Level
I've only been @ one table where the stall tactic was used near the bubble...by the majority of the table; one of the players who had been consistently playing solid poker was coolered by another player (who had been bullying the table by going all in on nearly every hand to steal the blinds & the table was having a tough time getting any hands to call the OP down) with a higher full house. The solid player had more chips than the OP so was not KOed but only had 1 BB left so the table stalled so this person would be ITM before the blinds came around again. Of course the only person who complained was the bully.
T
ted80
Rock Star
Silver Level
you said it...WHEN you need it. if stone cold steve austin was here, he'd remind you that's the bottom line. and that is the bottom line...the clock is seldom required to intentionally time out with full intention to fold. i know i all read posted my point in this thread, but, re-reading the actual name of the topic: "Using the Clock to increase Profit"...i really, honestly can say there has never been a tournament where "profit" was a word i could legitimately use in regards to finish ITM in which i have been involved. you have (well, maybe you do) no idea how easily read chronic stallers are at "that time" of the tournament. every hand...tick tick tick, right down to the final second. congratulations, you have mastered slow-folding. that's really neat. god forbid they are dealt QQ-AA...OMG! INSTANT SNAP ALL IN! YES!!! the worst ones will snap-limp. sticks out like a sore thumb. "i suck, fold, i suck, fold, i suck, fold...AKs...ooooh man dammit, this...i would limp this like 30 mins ago but now, since i have like 2 BB's left...i...i...i fold...some donkey on the BB with 29o will call anyway...OOOOOH YES YES YES!!!!! I'M GONNA BE IN THE MONEY! AA!!!! YES!!!! oh man, limp or all-in?...limp this time...so i'll have another blind, you know, if i don't like the flop"
peacebrother
Rock Star
Silver Level
I love using the clock to get the button as blinds go up. 15 seconds really not that long to think about a hand. I cant remember a tournament when near the bubble where all the short stacks did not use the clock to try and make the money.
In sit and goes and I am the big stack I will play slow and let the blinds go up as it decimates the small stacks.
If you dont use the clock to your advantage then you are giving up a useful tool.
In sit and goes and I am the big stack I will play slow and let the blinds go up as it decimates the small stacks.
If you dont use the clock to your advantage then you are giving up a useful tool.
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
Good idea to use that one. like tom says it's legal and I will use that.
How did you manage to read Tom's
post and miss out Egons?
It isn't legal is it? Its a direct violation of the terms and conditions.
