Tournament Tactics - Float Play (Long)

[baudib1]

Q:
do you think it's better to float with marginal SDV hands (like 55 on the k-high flop) or hands that have some amount of equity vs. their actual value range (like AQ vs. 77 on a J82 board).

 

[Egon Towst]

Q:
do you think it's better to float with marginal SDV hands (like 55 on the k-high flop) or hands that have some amount of equity vs. their actual value range (like AQ vs. 77 on a J82 board).

Your hand doesn`t matter very much, since you are not going to a showdown unless something goes wrong. Therefore, there`s no very logical reason why you can`t float with 72o.

In practical terms, it`s unlikely that you would have called the raise preflop with 72o. You will usually have a hand with some kind of potential, but that might be similar to any of the ones you mention and any would be equally acceptable.

 

[baudib1]

yeah i realize we're essentially stealing (even though we often are bluffing with the best hand). but sometimes villains get stubborn. I would assume that, in position, we would always try to float with big suited connectors that have some sort of backdoor potential, floating with a whiffed AK/AQ is obvious...

 

[Egon Towst]

yeah i realize we're essentially stealing (even though we often are bluffing with the best hand). but sometimes villains get stubborn. I would assume that, in position, we would always try to float with big suited connectors that have some sort of backdoor potential, floating with a whiffed AK/AQ is obvious...

Same answer, really. There are players who, having identified a likely target for a float, will call that player the very next time he raises preflop without any regard to their own hand, purely in order to set up the float play. That always seems to me a little too much on the reckless side of LAG, and I generally start out preflop with a playable hand whose potential actually merits the call, thereby giving myself two ways to win. If I hit the flop, well and good. If not, I can consider the float.

My decision as to whether to float or whether to just lay it down after missing the flop will depend on the texture of the flop and my judgement as to whether the opponent missed. I am not looking to win a showdown, because my expectation is that the opponent is going to fold to my bet. Therefore my cards are not a significant factor in my decision at that stage of the hand.

 

[medeiros13]

Thank you for this post Egon. I just had someone try this play on me...only problem was he saw my value bet as a contiuation bet. We all checked the turn..and he tried to steal the river. I recognized it and busted him

 

[Elie_Yammine]

Nice thread ET! but there's one thing you haven't covered...what if the opponent plays back at you at the turn with a call or even a raise? beluga theorem apart(since many players are aware of it now), do you continue your game on the river or do you accept the fact that you're caught and lay it down? I am aware that the type of card that falls on the river may affect this decision but do you usually bluff to the very end or do you give up on the river?

 

[Egon Towst]

Nice thread ET! but there's one thing you haven't covered...what if the opponent plays back at you at the turn with a call or even a raise? beluga theorem apart(since many players are aware of it now), do you continue your game on the river or do you accept the fact that you're caught and lay it down? I am aware that the type of card that falls on the river may affect this decision but do you usually bluff to the very end or do you give up on the river?

I don`t really have a definite strategy for that, as it`s a rare event. Much would depend on stack sizes. Often, in a tourney, you aren`t going to have the ammunition to make another powerful bluff and are constrained to give it up whether you want to or not.

Might be worth another shot if deep-stacked, especially since, if both players are deep-stacked, it`s usually early in the tourney. My general philosophy about that is that I don`t mind taking a shot early in the tourney before I have invested much time. At the start of a session, I will usually be playing 3 to 5 tournies simultaneously, and my aim is to cash in one or two of them. So, losing one in the early stages causes me no stress at all.

 

[TylerN]

I think this is one of the best posts I have read on here. Very informative and I can't wait to use it in my game. And also recognize it when sum1 uses it against me

 

[PattyR]

Very nice post Egon. solid stuff that i need to add to my arsenal when playin my next tournament.

 

[IamRude]

very clear and great examples.
thanks

 

[Oil_Fan]

I personally love doing this. As soon as I see weakness on the turn, I follow up with a bet. Works most of the time for me Unless I've misread the villain and he's check/raising. Then I'm bailing on the hand.

 

[I_B_Freaky]

I agree......awesome great post!!! Thanks!

 

[crancko]

Slightly different, but a float nonetheless

Would you consider the below play a float? I raised his betting the flop instead of calling, but finished him off when he checked the turn. (And was relly testing a move myself, with an inferior hand...).

pokerstars Game #51212425317: Tournament #335010846, $1.00+$0.10 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (100/200) - 2010/10/17 2:46:05 CET [2010/10/16 20:46:05 ET]
Table '335010846 240' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: judoka60 (9667 in chips)
Seat 2: WWWND (9598 in chips)
Seat 3: BCOVE (3035 in chips)
Seat 4: danny_vs122 (8335 in chips)
Seat 5: crancko (7627 in chips)
Seat 6: S@mr83 (4625 in chips)
Seat 7: RAUL-EL-KAFE (4885 in chips)
Seat 8: HHA1978 (8915 in chips)
Seat 9: fred toms (4494 in chips)
judoka60: posts the ante 25
WWWND: posts the ante 25
BCOVE: posts the ante 25
danny_vs122: posts the ante 25
crancko: posts the ante 25
S@mr83: posts the ante 25
RAUL-EL-KAFE: posts the ante 25
HHA1978: posts the ante 25
fred toms: posts the ante 25
S@mr83: posts small blind 100
RAUL-EL-KAFE: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to crancko [Qs 8h]
HHA1978: calls 200
fred toms: folds
judoka60: folds
WWWND: folds
BCOVE: folds
danny_vs122: folds
crancko: raises 200 to 400
S@mr83: folds
RAUL-EL-KAFE: calls 200
HHA1978: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [3d Ks 2s]
RAUL-EL-KAFE: checks
HHA1978: bets 400
crancko: raises 400 to 800
RAUL-EL-KAFE: folds
HHA1978: calls 400
*** TURN *** [3d Ks 2s] 9♦
HHA1978: checks
crancko: bets 800
HHA1978: folds
Uncalled bet (800) returned to crancko
crancko collected 3125 from pot
crancko: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3125 | Rake 0
Board [3d Ks 2s 9d]
Seat 1: judoka60 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: WWWND folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: BCOVE folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: danny_vs122 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: crancko (button) collected (3125)
Seat 6: S@mr83 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: RAUL-EL-KAFE (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: HHA1978 folded on the Turn
Seat 9: fred toms folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[cjatud2012]

not a float, more like spew imo...

 

[natsgrampy]

ET, I have employed this move several times since reading this and must say it has helped me to get over the bubbleboy syndrome. In the last 7 CC buy in games I have cashed in 5. Great improvement. Thanks and looking forward to more schooling.

 

[engman]

Thank you for sharing this information. That was a good read.

 

[Ray]

I think i am on the loosing side of this. Better do something about it

 

[Egon Towst]

Would you consider the below play a float?

I`d call it eccentric, actually, to min-raise preflop with a trash hand. There is certainly an argument for making occasional off-the-wall plays against quality opponents, in order to keep them from getting too solid a read on you. I wouldn`t expect that to be a great concern in a one-dollar tournament, though.

Still, whatever works for you is fine with me. You won`t ever hear me claim that I know all the answers.