Sunday Storm & Sunday Million. Luck or skill?

nerobs9

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Hello!
I would like to discuss this topic.
There are two well-known all-star tournaments: the Sunday Storm for medium stakes and the Sunday Million for high stakes. So, I periodically review the winners. Things are a little better in the Sunday Million. Often the winners are just high stakes players.
In Sunday Storm the situation is much more interesting. It feels like for half of the players this is their first victory. I'm not a very good poker player, but even I can easily outplay some. That is, the first places are won by players who do not even know the basic tactics. How so?
So do you need skill to win such a big tournament, or is it all about luck? Believe me, I saw a lot of finals, and I didn’t always understand how the players got there at all. Sometimes it got to the point that it was their first big money.
 
G0930

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Hello!
I would like to discuss this topic.
There are two well-known all-star tournaments: the Sunday Storm for medium stakes and the Sunday Million for high stakes. So, I periodically review the winners. Things are a little better in the Sunday Million. Often the winners are just high stakes players.
In Sunday Storm the situation is much more interesting. It feels like for half of the players this is their first victory. I'm not a very good poker player, but even I can easily outplay some. That is, the first places are won by players who do not even know the basic tactics. How so?
So do you need skill to win such a big tournament, or is it all about luck? Believe me, I saw a lot of finals, and I didn’t always understand how the players got there at all. Sometimes it got to the point that it was their first big money.
It's definetly both.
You won't win with skill alone ..too much variance Especially given the vast amount of entries
 
valen.bs.95

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I think the skills will come in handy in the later stages, without them you won’t get into good prizes
 
Poker Orifice

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I think you might be surprised if you were to check the game stats. of players in the Sunday Storm once you get past the 4th break. I'd suggest that you'll typically find 2/3 of the table are well experienced players. The deeper you go in any $10 tournament on Stars, you'll see more & more regulars on the table.
Any tournament can be won or final-tabled by players who are not very good, or inexperienced. Today's GGPoker $150 Overlay Edition, $10Million gtd. prizepool had MANY, MANY players with poor results (&/or just very few games played on GGPoker). BUT, the structure was also TERRIBLE (extremely fast) with many stacks sitting at around 10-15bb's with 60 players to go & tournament Chip leader with only in the mid-30's (I knew the Chip Leader on Day2, but unfortunately he dropped down to 8bb's at the end of the day, just from losing two hands.. and went out in 13th).

It is the very nature of Tournament play. You can be Phil Ivey himself and have terrible results in MANY successive tournaments... but 'in the long run', your results will prove you to be a winning player.

Playing a nlhe tournament is a bit like playing the lottery... but the better players show up with more tickets.

It also depends on the field of players. Both the Storm & the Sunday Million attract the most recreational players in them out of probably any tournament online but because of this they also attract all of the sharks! What I mean though is, it is more difficult for a rookie/bad player to make their way through a large field of players if the overall skill level is good vs. if it's loaded with fish.
 
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fundiver199

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That is, the first places are won by players who do not even know the basic tactics. How so?
I dought, its that extreme, but of course that also depends on, what exactly you mean by "basic tactics". Its definitely possible to win a single big tournament, even if you a are less than average skilled player in the field. This is the luck element in tournament poker and is nothing new. When Cris Moneymaker won the wsop main event in 2003 and ignited the poker boom, there were also many far better players than him in the 840 player large field.
 
nerobs9

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I think you might be surprised if you were to check the game stats. of players in the Sunday Storm once you get past the 4th break. I'd suggest that you'll typically find 2/3 of the table are well experienced players. The deeper you go in any $10 tournament on Stars, you'll see more & more regulars on the table.
Any tournament can be won or final-tabled by players who are not very good, or inexperienced. Today's GGPoker $150 Overlay Edition, $10Million gtd. prizepool had MANY, MANY players with poor results (&/or just very few games played on GGPoker). BUT, the structure was also TERRIBLE (extremely fast) with many stacks sitting at around 10-15bb's with 60 players to go & tournament Chip leader with only in the mid-30's (I knew the Chip Leader on Day2, but unfortunately he dropped down to 8bb's at the end of the day, just from losing two hands.. and went out in 13th).
I understand you, but I often collect statistics on the finalists. It often happens that these are beginners or inexperienced players who got there by accident. I won't say it's the law, but in the Sunday Storm it's a common thing.

In the Sunday Million - this is less common.
 
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fundiver199

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I understand you, but I often collect statistics on the finalists. It often happens that these are beginners or inexperienced players who got there by accident. I won't say it's the law, but in the Sunday Storm it's a common thing.
That might be, but why is this surpricing to you? Its the main weekly featured tournament of pokerstars, which people can play for the price of a meal at McDonalds. Or even less if they satellite in. So of course its going to attract a lot of beginners and gamblers, who are dreaming about a big one-time score. And the more of those participate, the higher the chance, some of them make it to the final table. It basically just mean, its a soft and profitable game to play, if you live in the american time zone or in the european time zone and dont mind playing all night. Personally I live in Europe and have to go to work monday morning, so I never play it.
In the Sunday Million - this is less common.
Yes because the buyin is 10 times higher. Day 2 of Sunday Million is regularly streamed on delay with all hole cards shown, and while there clearly are some recreational players, who make it to day 2, few of them are completely clueless.
 
nerobs9

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It basically just mean, its a soft and profitable game to play, if you live in the american time zone or in the european time zone and dont mind playing all night. Personally I live in Europe and have to go to work monday morning, so I never play it.
I live in a very inconvenient time zone for the game, so I played about 4 times in all the time, but did not make it to the second day of the Sunday Storm.
After that, I took a lot of courses and watched the analysis of hands. I hope one day I can do it.
 
PatriceM915

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Yes, you have to be skillful, but I see that luck helps a lot to win a big tournament
 
Pavel1203733

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Hello.
Once every player get his first big win.
I think that it's almost impossible for random player with random moves to win such big tournaments. Everything can happen. But even on the bubble it is very importand to be serious and calm. Especially with short stack. Not every player can do it.
 
Igor Popadyk

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I think that there are more players in cheaper tournaments and the variance is higher than in more expensive ones, and anyone can get to and play a tournament, it’s enough to be more successful, and this attracts many poker-you can get rich
 
dreamer13

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How can you determine the winners by nicknames, there may be bots that win as a rule, I don’t believe in honesty, ordinary players will not be allowed to win large sums there.
 
horscht22

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The problem of these tow tournamens is, that they have huge fields of players, so there u can find nearly every type of player in it. Starting from Bingoplayer over Crusher to the tight aggressive one...Nearly all...But the main important thing is to play your game, meens make notes as much as u can, play tight and of course u need a little bit of luck especially to win your flips...When u win your flips, you win tournaments at all... ;)
 
Marshmalo1994

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In such long mtts, I don't think luck is enough. But that doesn't mean that the winners has to be regular or pro players, of course.

Maybe the lucky part is that some player with a small volume of play could win, if they have some basic strategy knowledge.

I don't think this apply to Sunday million tho, but I looked for some players that has the micromillions winner tag, and after winning most of them have negative results in micro limits.
 
nerobs9

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In such long mtts, I don't think luck is enough. But that doesn't mean that the winners has to be regular or pro players, of course.

Maybe the lucky part is that some player with a small volume of play could win, if they have some basic strategy knowledge.

I don't think this apply to Sunday million tho, but I looked for some players that has the micromillions winner tag, and after winning most of them have negative results in micro limits.
I'm not saying it's pure luck, but it plays an important role. Some players open a very large range of hands. Their VPIP is sometimes higher than 70% and they still make it to the final table. Sometimes poker gods smile at each of us)
 
nerobs9

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The problem of these tow tournamens is, that they have huge fields of players, so there u can find nearly every type of player in it. Starting from Bingoplayer over Crusher to the tight aggressive one...Nearly all...But the main important thing is to play your game, meens make notes as much as u can, play tight and of course u need a little bit of luck especially to win your flips...When u win your flips, you win tournaments at all... ;)
That is why they are popular. Huge fields create very large prize pools.
 
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