STT step experiment

L

lesclaypool6

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My run ends. =(

full tilt poker Game #3210082124: $33 + $3 Sit & Go (Turbo) (24541569), Table 1 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:49:07 ET - 2007/08/10
Seat 1: JDK0806 (1,140)
Seat 2: temujin (660)
Seat 3: JohnnJohn (1,885)
Seat 4: MYLOSS (2,415)
Seat 5: lefty6226 (1,100)
Seat 6: SharkBoyNY (1,800)
JohnnJohn posts the small blind of 30
MYLOSS posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to JDK0806 [Qh Qd]
lefty6226 folds
SharkBoyNY raises to 210
JDK0806 raises to 1,140, and is all in
temujin folds
JohnnJohn folds
MYLOSS folds
SharkBoyNY calls 930
JDK0806 shows [Qh Qd]
SharkBoyNY shows [Jd Jh]
*** FLOP *** [Js 5d 5s]
*** TURN *** [Js 5d 5s] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [Js 5d 5s Jc] [4d]
JDK0806 shows two pair, Queens and Jacks
SharkBoyNY shows four of a kind, Jacks
SharkBoyNY wins the pot (2,370) with four of a kind, Jacks
JDK0806 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,370 | Rake 0
Board: [Js 5d 5s Jc 4d]
Seat 1: JDK0806 showed [Qh Qd] and lost with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 2: temujin (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: JohnnJohn (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: MYLOSS (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: lefty6226 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: SharkBoyNY showed [Jd Jh] and won (2,370) with four of a kind, Jacks
 
L

lesclaypool6

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Yup, even after the loss my bankroll got a boost of about 90$. I decided to just use the profit to up my SnG stakes from my normal 6.50 game to 12.00 games and play in my bankroll now. I hopped in a 12.00 right after and won all the money back so I'm at +120.00 from the experiment and the up in bankroll.

Overall, it was a great two days of poker for me. I'll be doing this probably twice a week, committing two buy-ins of 6.50 games. If I move on, I move on. If I don't, it's not a big deal. I'll play until I lose and hopefully make a decent profit most of the times.

I would recommend doing this for people who have a limited BR (Or at least limited on the poker sites) and feel they are better players than their buy-ins suggests. If you're running well the day you try this you could make a MAJOR profit, but if you're running poorly, you lose 5 to 15 bucks... big deal.

Another positive to this "system" is that when your stakes elevate, your play elevates as well. As I went up the stakes I noticed that I tightened up in the early stages (Which I have been trying to do regardless) and thought through my hands more. It also kept me from multitabling and browsing the internet, keeping me more focused on my play. It's hard for me to keep focused while playing a 2 + .25 game, but in my 24 & 36 dollar games I was completely fixed on the game.

Thanks Storm for suggesting this, it was a lot of fun! =P
 
smd173

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I'd be interested in seeing more results from a number of players. I remember when you started the cash game Rampage thread, some people had some success with it, but most didn't get very far. I'm happy to see JDK/less did well with it so far, but will others?
 
rob5775

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There is no such thing as a free lunch. Assume you can play $5 STTs and win enough to make a small profit, say an average of $2 per tournament. This means you place 1, 2, 3, >3, >3, >3 of 6 entries. Now, if you take $11 from a win and play a $10 STT. There is a 50% probablity you will drop back on the first tournament. You can say there is "NO RISK TO YOU", but your bankroll is $11 smaller. If you have a better average that I used, you could be playing at higher level anyway. No matter where the entry fee seems to come from, it is from your pocket in the end.

I'm a little slow, so forgive me if your math is confusing me. I understand what you are saying (but not the math, go figure) and I agree to a point. The step STTs that Brian is suggesting is not something you would do day in and day out. It is meant (there I go presuming) as something new to do once in a while and a good way to get some experience at higher limits.

Here's where I follow you: if you consistently win at 5$ sngs, then immediately buyin to a 10$ sng odds dictate that you will lose that 10$ sng more often then you win. If you follow normal BR methods, you should buy back into a 5$ sng(until you have a BR big enough to play 10$ games) - thus limiting the loss if you do lose. So over the long run your losses will be greater following the step method then in comparison to normal STT BR methods.

But the step method is not meant for the long run. In the short run, especially if you go on a heater - you make considerable money compared to grinding it out at the same level everyday. If I start with a 5$ game and win, I then move to a 10$ game. I win and move up a level to a 20$ game. At this point I have invested 5$ and won 51$. So my streak ends and I place third, netting 36$. I try again at the 20$, and lose - I decide I have had enough and go back to my normal level (5$).

I had won (net) 17$ in my original 5$ game. If I just continued playing at that level and won at the same rate as above, I would have netted 27$. Using the step method I won 43$ (a positive difference of 16$). In actuality, compared to what pigpen stated, you did not "lose" anything from our overall bankroll - instead we added to it while "experimenting".

As compared to the cash game step contest, I like this one a little more - as the STTs typically take longer to finish and there is a built in stop-loss (you cannot lose more than the buyin). If one does this twice a weekend and loses - you're only out eleven dollars. But there is a nice upside to it and I don't believe 11 dollars is a big hit to anyones BR who is properly staked to be playing 5$ sngs anyway.
 
T

Talking Point

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I have an ROI of 51% after 208 games. At the 20+2 SNGs on FT I place in the money 59/109 games. That's like 57% of the time.

I might try one of these stepped, just to see if I can make 1000 dollars in 3 steps. ;) That is with starting at a 20 of course.
 
stormswa

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I have an ROI of 51% after 208 games. At the 20+2 SNGs on FT I place in the money 59/109 games. That's like 57% of the time.

I might try one of these stepped, just to see if I can make 1000 dollars in 3 steps. ;) That is with starting at a 20 of course.


nice numbers and GL.
 
pigpen02

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You are not going to get posts from people who try this three, four, five times with their latest $5 STTs and give up after decimating their bankroll. Only winners are going to say "this is the greatest thing since sliced bread."
 
rob5775

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You are not going to get posts from people who try this three, four, five times with their latest $5 STTs and give up after decimating their bankroll. Only winners are going to say "this is the greatest thing since sliced bread."

You do realize this is a contest? You can read more about it here.

I don't believe anyone is advocating doing this as normal BR managment. That has been stated several times.
 
stormswa

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You are not going to get posts from people who try this three, four, five times with their latest $5 STTs and give up after decimating their bankroll. Only winners are going to say "this is the greatest thing since sliced bread."


how are you going to decimate your bankroll doing this? you normally play $5 STT right well that is what you are playing, any wins after your 1st $5 STT are not in your origional starting bankroll. Like Rob said this has nothing to do with bankroll managment but there is no way you are going to blow your bankroll doing this.
 
I

i win sometimes

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does STT mean single table tournament and MTT mean multi table tournament? please reply
 
ChuckTs

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I'll be doing this sometime this weekend/next week, but right now I'm a little busy. Will post results when I get em.
 
J

jeffred1111

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Will do this tonight by commiting two initial buy-ins and stopping if the money gets too big (current wins > future wins in utility). As a BR potential boost and an experience builder, it is a nice plan. Results to come (with the hand that will be my demise too).
 
Effexor

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I'd be interested in seeing more results from a number of players. I remember when you started the cash game Rampage thread, some people had some success with it, but most didn't get very far. I'm happy to see JDK/less did well with it so far, but will others?

I'll be the first honest one:

All $5 buyins

1 2nd
2 5th
3 4th
4 4th
5 2nd
6 3rd
7 6th
8 2nd
9 6th
10 2nd
11 4th
12 7th
13 3rd

Variance is kicking my bum.

I've had my over-pair run into a bigger over pair 5 times in a row. I've lost every single coin flip. And had coolers like my 66 vs 44 and the flop comes 455. And my favorite one was when my top 2 pair got outdrawn by a flush draw. This last one my top pair ran into yet another overpair.

It's all good, it'll turn around. But I think I'll move back up to my $10 sng's for a bit
 
pigpen02

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I know people that played the step tourneys at party and made it to the final step. If people were not making it to last step there party would of stopped them.

You get a lot of experience at levels you may not be ready for with very little risk since you are using pure profit.

I'll give it one more try to explain my objection to your post.

1) Yes, people made it to the top of Party's steps because it was set up so there was a top to the pyramid. The base was LOTS of people who never made it past the first step. Whatever game was played was profit to Party because of the buy-in fees. Average Joe did NOT make it to the top.

2) "you are using pure profit." Average Joe needs that profit to make up for his losses. Average Joe is going to read your plan and say, "I can't lose, it is from pure profit!" He is going to enter nine $5 STT's to win one, go on to the $10 and lose. He is going to say, "All those other people (the winners who posted on your thread) did it, I must be doing something wrong. I will start at the $10 level to bypass those pesky $5 STTs." He will do that for a day, lose all his money, reload, lose all that money, reload with the rent, lose all that money, be kicked out on the street, lose his girlfriend, and have to bum around for quarters to buy food. Granted , there is little chance of that total scenerio, but as good a chance as making it 11 levels.

The plan, scheme, whatever, is OK for winners. As long as you realize it is NOT a foolproof plan to win at poker for anybody, you can do it anytime you want, start at any point, modify it at will to suit your own temperment and I wish you the best of luck.
 
A

Alfoldem

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im sold

i like this. Ive completely switched from cash games to SnG's for the last 3 months and have doubled my BR in that time at $5 a go although im wary of moving up to the $10 just yet.
By doing this ill be able to sit at the $10 buy in with profits from an earlier SnG.
If i didnt move up until properley rolled for that level i may be a bit too tight and not play my normal game while i got the feel of it - this way i think id feel less pressure and have a better go at playing my A game.
Thanks Storm
 
stormswa

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The plan, scheme, whatever, is OK for winners. As long as you realize it is NOT a foolproof plan to win at poker for anybody, you can do it anytime you want, start at any point, modify it at will to suit your own temperment and I wish you the best of luck.


I dont believe anyone ever said it was.
 
W

Wlokos

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This does sound pretty interesting, I might try this out sometime.
 
pigpen02

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Yes I see what u mean, I am definately going to be trying this out. I am pretty nicely rolled for 5.50 STTs with 150 dollars. I am always looking for interesting things to try as I get bored fairly easily just grinding out STTs and 10max all day.

If playing poker has anything to do with grinding out, then perhaps it is no longer a fun game and you should quit and find something that is.
 
stormswa

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If playing poker has anything to do with grinding out, then perhaps it is no longer a fun game and you should quit and find something that is.


poker is a grind for people that are actually building a bankroll. if you are just playing for fun that is fine but dont look down upon someone because they grind it out. Everyone has different reasons for playing and some dont play just for fun, you shouldnt make suggestions like this without knowing the player.
 
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